Soul Touched by Dogs

Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs
Podcast, the show for dog lovers who

see dogs not as toys or tools, but
wise souls worth our respect and care.

I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host.

I talk to poor some humans, people who
do great work for dogs and their people.

So come and join us for
today's conversation.

Anke: Hello.

Hello.

Hello.

Welcome, Aileen.

I'm like super excited to have you here.

We've been chatting for a
while, so it doesn't feel that

Aileen: new

Anke: anymore.

Aileen: It doesn't, but I love it.

We've been, you're wonderful to talk to.

Anke: And so you are
wonderful to talk to as well.

And listeners are going to
get a little glimpse of that.

So let's just start out, let people
know where in this lovely world

you are, your little type of thing.

It gives it a little bit away.

And so what's your business with dogs?

Aileen: I live in Scottsdale, Arizona,
and I own a company where we help new

parents, um, manage their relationship
with their dogs and we help their, help

them get their dogs ready for baby.

Anke: I love that.

I love that because it's such a, you know,
I mean, I guess it's one of those times

where people kind of, Oh, I've got a baby
now, like the dog's going to go, right?

So the idea is that the
dog doesn't have to go.

What's the Biggest challenge in that.

Like, why is it hard?

Aileen: Honestly, the biggest
challenge is the humans getting

everyone on the same page with the
same goal of, and an agreement of

how they want their family life.

To feel.

Um, and so the biggest challenge is one
convincing people that they shouldn't

wait until baby's here to work it out.

And two, that it is worth, uh,
giving your dog a structure

beforehand to make this transition
so much less stressful for them.

Anke: So what, what, what
do you mean by structure?

What would that look like?

Aileen: Um, you know, having their
basic skills down, knowing what rooms

the dog is allowed and not allowed in.

I have a couple of rules, kind of like
the dog doesn't go in the baby's nursery

or anywhere that the baby is sleeping.

Uh, those first few weeks when baby's
really little and tiny and we're

not sleeping well, um, it's really.

Uh, dogs will want to come in
and they will want to be close to

you and they will want to help.

And sometimes that can be really difficult
to manage when you have a teeny tiny baby

in the dark in the middle of the night.

And so making this whole thing so much
less stressful for them and saying,

this is where I do want you to sleep.

And I don't, I want to relieve
you of the burden of being

responsible for helping me.

Um, um, And then knowing when
you do want them included.

And so structure is really just knowing
what you want, and knowing what you

want that whole thing to look like.

And so it's going to be different for
everybody, it's going to be different

for every temperament, it's going
to be different for every family.

And yeah, just coming, like knowing
exactly what that looks like going

into it will alleviate a lot of
the uncertainty when baby arrives.

Anke: So what are typical things
that people are maybe worried about?

And you know, like I was saying
when we were chatting before,

It's like my grandma who had the
dog who was 10 when I was born.

And now all of a sudden, like,
Oh, you're going to have to

look after the grand baby.

And everybody told her, Oh my God, the
older, like the dog's kind of older

and he's not going to accept the baby.

Is that a thing?

Is that true?

Aileen: I mean, for some dogs that
can be, but in my experience, older

dogs tend to, um, be really good.

They, they tend to be a lot.

more in tune or aware of
the energy of the situation.

So a senior dog who is uncomfortable
is likely is going to be more likely

to get up and leave a situation
that makes them feel uncomfortable.

They're going to have a
lot lower energy needs.

Um, and I mean, in our case, we had a dog
that was totally deaf, so he never heard.

The baby crying, you wouldn't even
wake up to those types of things.

Uh, but you know, for senior dogs, it
can, the things that can be stressful is

just the biggest change in the amount of
time they used to spend with their person.

And so it is important to know that
that can create stress for them.

And how can you alleviate
that by having Time, like what

does time together look like?

How can you lean on your partner?

How can you lean on your community
to alleviate that for the dog?

Anke: So, so

are there particular like behavior
changes or like things that are common?

Whereas like all of a sudden
there's this little baby, you know,

but it's the time for the dog.

So are there, you know, would that be a
time when all of a sudden the dog gets

more anxious or does things differ?

Oh, yeah.

Aileen: Definitely.

A big complaint I hear from people is
their dog is following them around.

So when women become pregnant, they go,
Oh, my dog totally knows I'm pregnant.

He won't stop following me around.

He wants to be connected
to me all the time.

Well, now all of a sudden, when you
have a baby, Caring a baby that is

annoying and scary and frightening.

And so those anxious behaviors, a
lot of time, I tell people, your dog

doesn't always know you're pregnant,
but they do know you're different.

And so when you're pregnant,
you're less likely to Uh, maintain

rules or ask for certain things.

You know, that whole first trimester,
we do a lot of laying around and

sleeping in bed, and we love having
our dog being a part of that.

But what we're not thinking about is
what is this going to feel like when

I have a baby that is a part of this?

And so some of the, the, you know, that
following around that stressful behavior.

It is important to start teaching the
dogs while you're pregnant, what you

expect when the baby first arrives.

And just like when the baby first arrives,
you want to start teaching them what's

expected when baby starts crawling.

So you kind of always want to be like
one developmental phase in training

ahead of where your baby currently is.

Anke: Oh, I love that.

So my, my guess is that's not
what people usually do, right?

So when, you know, If somebody wants
to write, to do the right thing,

you know, when's the best time
to let's say work with you to, to

address and get, get ready properly.

Obviously not when the baby's
due in two days, right?

I

Aileen: have that happen a lot,
but I do have an online course that

people can watch and, and it'll
give them, you know, the best.

Basics of what they need to know.

Things like having your dog lay in
one, one spot on their bed in training.

We call that place, having them
understand that they can be a part

of things at the door, but they don't
necessarily have to be in the room with

you while you're changing the baby.

Um, Teaching them that like, if
you're walking into their space, we

need them to move out of the way.

Uh, I don't recommend climbing over an
80 pound dog while you're holding a baby.

There's a good chance you're going to
trip or they're going to get nervous

and they're going to get scared.

So the best time to start training is
when you very first find out that you're

going to be adding a baby to your family.

Um, and so don't wait.

Don't wait until a week before because
that's what creates the stress.

It is going to be stressful
bringing home a baby no matter what.

So the dog just, we don't want the dog to
associate that stress and that change with

the newborn that you just brought home.

We want them to have wonderful,
positive associations to each other.

Anke: I saw something
somewhere in the video.

Where they, um, prepare, like, basically,
before they brought the baby home, they

basically had, they showed, they gave the
dog, like, clothes that the baby had worn.

So it was literally, like, kind of the day
or a couple of days before, when the baby

was born, before they actually got home.

So that by the time the baby
was in the basket, the dog

was familiar with the smell.

Is that something that you'd
recommend somebody does?

Aileen: I think the most important
piece of that, I, it can be good, but

we always want to remember that it's
most important how the dog is behaving

when we share that scent with them.

So if we say, here is the scent of
your new human sibling, and they get

really excited and they take it in
their mouth and they run all over and

they're like, Oh, that is startling.

Now, if you introduce that scent and
they take a nice long whiff, then they

walk away from it calmly and lay down.

That's beautiful.

And so it is something that's important.

We just want to make sure that
what we're rewarding that scent

with is a nice calm energy.

Um, there will be plenty of time for
them to play down the road, but when

your baby is really teeny tiny and in
a bassinet and, you know, doing, you

know, snugly sleepy time, that is not the
best time to have a bunch of excitement.

So the most important
component to that scent is.

What is the dog doing when it smells it?

And how can you gear that
towards a nice calm reaction?

Anke: I mean, to be honest, in
that video, they did that really

well because the whole, it was
such a beautiful, calm moment.

And then when they basically brought the
baby in, what the dog did, the dog went

and Walk the blanket and put it on the
baby, you know, it was like really sweet.

So you were like, we were like, obviously
we were chatting before, so, but I would

love you to kind of touch on this whole
topic of, you know, when the baby is teeny

tiny, and so that has its challenges,
you know, because they're just delicate

and you can't have them rocking around.

But, um, You know, what is something that
people need to keep in mind when teeny

weeny baby grows up to be a toddler who
is the rough one in the relationship?

Aileen: Well, there's a big change
when babies start crawling and

walking because now all of a
sudden the tables have turned.

When the baby is small and
being held a lot, the dog can

come into the baby's stomach.

It's like, okay, I'm gonna take my dog in
my space, sniff, smell, and then leave.

But when the baby starts crawling and
walking, now all of a sudden the baby can

enter the dog's space without permission.

And that can be really
frightening for the dog.

And that's one of those situations where
you do want the dog to learn to walk away.

One, from any situation that makes it
feel uncomfortable, and that's whether

it's good to have safe spaces for them.

Like a bed or a crate
where baby is not allowed.

And it's also why
supervision is so important.

I don't ever want parents to get
into a place where they feel so

comfortable, even if it's just to
walk away and grab your coffee.

That's when those things
happen, a snap or a growl.

It's when you didn't see.

What was coming.

I recently had someone send me a video
of their dog laying on the floor.

And I think the baby is about 20 months
old and she's walking over and she's

got a baby doll and she's all happy.

And then it enters maybe like
two feet of the dog space.

And the parent was in the kitchen.

So the parent was, it
went dog, baby, parent.

And.

That's never good, especially
when baby is walking and dog

isn't comfortable with that yet.

And the dog went from asleep to standing
up, not standing all the way, but

going to a raised position and kind
of growled and barked at the child.

And of course the child was.

Um, and so that's a situation where it,
it happens that quickly and that easily

that a moment that doesn't seem scary
can become really scary, really fast.

Um, and that dog was just saying, Hey,
my space is being invaded in a way

that I don't feel comfortable with.

Um, and no one's here to be the lifeguard.

So just remembering that you are
a lifeguard in all situations.

And you're responsible
for coaching the dog.

The dog doesn't have to sit
there and tolerate things that

it doesn't want to tolerate.

And then also teaching the child, uh,
some boundaries to the dog, because

that will keep your child safe.

Anke: Hmm.

I mean, that's something that like, you
know, living in Spain, I've seen a lot

where, you know, people are pretty tough
on the dog and make no effort to teach.

you know the kids,
anything really you know.

So it's almost like the dog's expected
to just put up with whatever you know.

And we're kind of like riding on the
dog and pulling on the ears and you know

so and I was like, what, what, what?

You know, so, what, what are some
you know I don't know is that

even the thing where you are?

Because.

And I don't think that's a thing in
Germany where I'm from, so I've not

experienced it there that parents
would let their kids just pounce on

their own dogs or on strange dogs.

Unfortunately,

Aileen: I see it a lot
more than I'd like to.

We see it a lot on social media.

You know what I mean?

I think sometimes these videos of
kids doing things and look at how

tolerant the dog is, people share
those things because they just aren't

realizing the sometimes global impact
of that imprint of information.

It really, dogs are not toys.

And they are not
playmates to, to children.

Um, babies in particular, especially, you
know, toddlers who, as we discussed, are

not prone to listening or cooperation.

Like you have to be the one that
sets that boundary for them as

much as you set it for the dog.

There is not in any
relationship, it's not entirely.

One party's responsibility to
be in control all of the time.

That's a shared
responsibility in the family.

And so if we put our dogs under so much
pressure, they're not going to have

any choice but to use the technology.

Their body, which is the only thing they
have to say, Hey, I don't like that.

And no one is advocating.

So we definitely, we want to be an
advocate for both the dog and the

baby, and we want to be a teacher
to both the dog and the baby.

Um, it would be really unfair
to just ask a dog to tolerate

an endless, you know, torture

Anke: from

Aileen: a

Anke: child.

It's like, you know, kids
can be, you know, very.

You know, they have a lot of
energy, like they can go on for

a bit, you know, so it's, yeah.

Aileen: And some kids, I mean, just
like dogs have different temperaments.

Like I do, I do think that a
little bit of resilience in

a family pet is a good thing.

And that comes down to like choosing
the, if you are, if you know that

kids are in your future, then you may
not want to go out and get the most.

To sound dog on the block.

You may want to have a dog that
has a little bit more resilience

to, you know, things that kids do.

And, uh, so making that good choice
in the beginning and then also, you

know, helping them become acclimated
to what life is like with kids.

It's.

You know, I always tell parents,
it's just hard to manage it all.

Even with people, I have
a dog training business.

We have a boarding side of our business.

We're in people's homes a lot.

You know, we have, we do, we're
very active in our community.

And I talk to moms sometimes and
they say, I don't know how you do it.

And I'm like, I don't.

I don't.

Some days I don't do it all.

Like, some days the, you know,
things don't get done, or don't get

done right, or don't get done well.

Like, this is a really hard
thing to do, to be in charge of

all of these living creatures.

Making sure they're all, you
know, living together peacefully.

It's hard.

Anke: I guess the thing is, the
thing is, if you do get it right, You

know, it's like the most beautiful
thing, you know, because like, if

you mentioned like how many people
say, Oh my God, I still remember the

family dog we had when I was a child.

Like it's that special bond and to be
able to give that to your child, you know,

I mean, that's like that bond or like
nothing's cuter than when they kind of

really close, you know, and, and to have

the dog's got.

You know, it doesn't lose the family, you
know, and the child gets to experience

that bond that a dog, like, I think can
offer, like, pretty much nobody else.

So I think it is the most beautiful
thing if you get it right.

So I think it's putting the effort in.

A lot of effort, you know.

Aileen: Yeah, my memories, uh, we had
three dogs pass away last year and

two were very, very involved in my
daughter's life from the day she was born.

And like, she remembers both of them
and she sees pictures of them and

she asked for them all the time.

Oh my gosh, I'm going to cry.

But like their relationship was amazing.

The one inspiration for this entire
company that we have, she is, she

is the original baby pack leader.

My three year old, she is the
whole, the whole reason we do this.

And like to see her respect for dogs,
her leadership with dogs, To see that in

action now that she's a little bit older
and to know that it was the result of

like those two amazing relationships she
had in the beginning, they, they didn't

know where they were going half of the
time, but they knew where she was and they

knew how to be sweet and gentle with her.

And And she knew how to be
sweet and gentle with them.

And that is something that like,
I know she won't remember when

she gets older, but I will,

Anke: you know, And on some level she
does, I swear, you know, because that's

what the thing where I was saying,
like, I was, I had a dog like that

in my life, you know, and I don't.

consciously remember it.

I remember the photos, you know,
and so you kind of see that, but the

love for dogs has always been there.

So I don't think,

Aileen: you know, I was watching
my three year old teach a

Doberman to swim yesterday.

That's, I mean, like if you do a little
bit of work in the beginning, you

get to reap these amazing benefits of
just, Everybody, understanding that

everybody has a role communicating
with your partner about who's in charge

and who's supervising, you know, a lot
of what I do is just helping people

understand, you know, what they want and
what their role is and how to get it.

Um, I'm really lucky I don't get.

You know, a lot of calls from people who
are in terribly dangerous situations.

Those are few and far between.

And I am help happy to help people
explore their options and, you know,

rehome dogs responsibly if it's the right
thing to do or the right thing for them.

You know, sometimes I think
they don't need to do this,

but it's also not my home.

You know, maybe they do feel that they
need to do this, but when You know, it

was, that was amazing to watch her do that
yesterday, this big 90 pound Doberman.

She was like, jump in the pool.

And she took his leash and
she walked him right in.

And I'm like, this is crazy.

But these are the things that she's
going to remember, you know, when she's

older, that she, you know, is powerful.

She's a powerful little girl.

Yeah.

Anke: Yeah, I think that's a,
that's a, that's a little video

that she's gonna like cherish.

So where can people go and connect
with you and find out and get their

hands on your course and, you know,
basically get your help to get prepared.

Aileen: Sure.

We are, you can find us
online@www.baby pack leader.com.

We also share a lot of content on
Instagram, BA at Baby Pack Leader.

We have a Facebook too.

Um, and yeah, if you.

Pop it into Google.

We should pop up a bunch of places.

Um, I've done a lot of, um, things
recently, speaking engagements

recently too, where I've gotten to
tap into a lot of like dog training,

the dog training side of things.

Um, and that's been really fun.

Those you can find on YouTube.

Anke: Awesome.

Well, thank you so much.

And, uh, it was an absolute delight,
and it's such a lovely topic.

Oh my god!

I'm so glad you do the work you do.

Thank you.

Aileen: Oh, you're welcome.

Thank you for having me.

I feel like we're going
to be friends forever.

Anke: I feel that too.

Thanks so much for listening.

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And if you know a pawsome human
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Email me at Anke.

That's A N k E at Soul
touched by dogs.com.