Soul Touched by Dogs

Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs
Podcast, the show for dog lovers who

see dogs not as toys or tools, but
wise souls worth our respect and care.

I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host.

I talk to poor some humans, people who
do great work for dogs and their people.

So come and join us for
today's conversation.

Anke: Hello.

Welcome, Amanda.

I'm super excited to have you here.

Yes.

Glad

Amanda: to be here.

Anke: And I, you know, I just love it.

Like, you just kind of look as
if you've just come in from the

outside, which I know you're not.

So

Amanda: Uh, yep.

I very much did.

Anke: Let people know where outside is
for you, like, where you're based, it.

And, um, you know, what's
your business with dogs?

Yeah.

Amanda: Well, you wouldn't know based off
what I'm wearing, but I'm actually based

out of, um, Myrtle Beach, South Carolina.

However, it is, um, February, so
we are getting a little chilly.

Um, it got down to the thirties
last night, but we I guess I'm

acclimated now, so 40 degree weather
is is enough for a winter hat.

Um, But, yes, I moved down, um, from
Upstate New York, uh, to start a dog

business, a dog training business.

I had spent a lot of time trying
to figure out what I wanted

that business to look like.

Um, and so I had decided that I wanted
to do something where that I got owners

and dogs working together and having fun
while also experiencing Better behavior.

So, um, less about focusing
on training like work and more

focusing on training like fun.

Having fun with your dog and,
yeah, enjoying your time together

while also getting the benefits
of good behavior back home.

I love that.

I

Anke: I love it.

So you get to hang out
with people's dogs all day.

I think that's just

Amanda: Yes.

Yep.

That's that's a lot of the job.

It's great.

Anke: I love it.

I love it.

So you get to go you go walk you walk
people's dogs, and then if they go like,

what on earth have you done to these dogs?

They're all of a sudden much better
behave, then you know, that's how you get

Amanda: your training clients.

Right?

Exactly.

Yep.

I get to hang out with
the dog, spend time.

I almost made, um, T shirts that said
I'm your dog's other best friend.

Um, but, yeah, it's it's been a lot of fun
both connecting with the dogs and then,

um, Having that connection lead to getting
the dogs and the owners more connected.

Anke: I love it.

Love it.

So now when it comes to dog
training, you have an approach

that, you know, is probably, un
unfortunately, not that commonly known.

Tell us a little bit about it.

What what is it and, you know, how is
it different from what people might be

Amanda: familiar with?

Yeah.

So I studied under and learned from Kevin
Bien who, uh, Uh, develop the dog model or

the training model, natural dog training.

Um, and his approach to how he
developed it and also the training model

itself is very different from other
training models that are out there.

Um, I did have the benefit of not
Being extremely well versed in other

training models, because I didn't
come to him as a trainer originally.

I came to him as an owner with a human and
Dog aggressive dog or dog reactive dog.

And, um, the thing that really
connected me to his work was

because it was different.

I would read about, um, different
training models, um, like the the

dominance training or force training, um,
e collar training, The the clicker or,

um, all positive reinforcement training.

And A lot of it, to me, spoke to the
idea of being in control of your dog.

And for me, I had grown up, um, Um,
you know, carrying around a veterinary

textbook before I could read.

I wanted to save dogs.

I wanted to help dogs.

For me, it was much more about
having a connection and a

real relationship with my dog.

Um, so that want, that desire
had led me to trainers who

who utilize methods like that.

Um, and, eventually, we Found Kevin,
and he taught us, um, you know,

the real, um, the real nuts and
bolts of how to to really get that

that we were seeking with our dogs.

So I think, um, the biggest difference
would be that natural dog training is

about forming a relationship, a mutually
beneficial relationship where both

parties are getting what they want.

Not only are you getting the behavior
that you're looking brought out

of your dog, but the dog is also
getting everything that they want

out of the relationship with you.

So it's, um, very fulfilling.

Anke: Yeah.

I mean, I must say to, like, for
for transparency, for clarity, uh, I

stumbled across natural dog training.

And, uh, when I was like you
know, when I had my little layout

and I was like, I don't know.

None of this stuff.

I'm finding out made sense.

And it was literally this moment where
I was like, oh, for the first time,

something actually makes sense here.

You know?

And, um, and the the sort of the things
you do as the person in this in this

relationship, uh, are quite call them
let's call them counterintuitive if we

call intuitive what we're kind of used to.

Right?

So not counterintuitive if
you know what's behind it.

But if you read some other stuff, you
know, and you kind of like, people told

you you've gotta do this and you've
gotta do that, and all of a sudden

this comes along and goes, oh, no.

You actually do the opposite.

Like, tell us a little bit about,
like, you know, what the what you

were sharing before about, you
know, getting the dogs to come back.

So instead of chasing off
them and yelling after them.

Like, you run the other way.

Amanda: Right.

Right?

So Well, and it's funny it's funny
that you say counterintuitive because

if we really got down to it, These
behaviors and what natural dog training

the exercises are different things.

They're actually all based
off intuition and And into the

that's why I put it in the wall.

Think we're right.

I think we're so far Yeah.

Separated from from the nature
within ourselves that that's why

it's become counterintuitive.

Yes.

Um, so what Kevin learned it through
watching and observing the dogs, and

that's how and then, again, used his
intuition to infer what was going

on and then eventually, Um, then
went the more scientific approach of

of experimenting and saying, okay.

If I do this, then the
dog does this and this.

So, um, 1 of the the the main
components for me, um, and, again,

I learned this Through a friend's
daughter who ended up, um, or at

least I learned what to label it.

Through a friend's daughter, She actually
struggled with with drug addiction,

and she went to a drug rehab program.

And they had this exercise, um,
that they I believe they called

it intention without reservation.

Um, and so the the, Um, the people
in the rehab were learning to almost

develop their own sense of willpower
or or reestablish their own willpower.

And it it's very as she was explaining it,
it it really resonated with me for exactly

what we're doing with the dogs, um, Um,
when it comes to natural dog training.

So when you're giving your dog a
command or trying to get your dog

to elicit a certain behavior, Um,
the most important thing is not

what you're saying or even what your
body language is necessarily doing.

Um, the most important thing is your
emotional state inside and how you are

feeling and what you are thinking about
when you are Speaking that command.

Um, so going back to the dogs running
away, so most people in that situation,

Their dog has either gotten off the
leash or they're they're they're off

leash, and the dog is now running
towards something that they don't

want them to be running towards.

Um, Um, you know, put
yourself in that moment.

How are you feeling?

Um, if you're feeling afraid and
you're feeling scared and you're

thinking in your head, oh my god.

Don't go that way.

Don't Don't run that way.

Oh my gosh.

They're not they're running away.

They're running away.

Um, even as you're calling
out to them, you know, hey.

Come back.

Come back, Fido.

If you're feeling and thinking those
things, the dog is picking up on that.

The dog is not the dog
doesn't know English.

The dog doesn't speak our language.

The dog doesn't have, Um, you know,
the same language capabilities

that we do and the same prefrontal
cortex to to process the information

that you are shouting at it.

However, it does have the, um, inner
workings to process emotionally

what you're thinking and feeling.

And so when when you're calling
out to them but you're afraid that

they're not gonna come back, what
they're hearing from you is run away.

If you're sitting there
thinking, oh my god.

They're running away.

They're running away.

Running away.

All they're feeling is I'm running away.

If you're afraid of something, then
that fear is reinforced in them.

I I need to run away.

There's something to be afraid of.

So they have no understanding that,
oh, they just want me to come back.

They're afraid because there's cars, you
know, up ahead or because they're afraid

they're gonna lose me in the woods or
They they don't understand any of that.

They just understand that you are
now afraid and that they're getting

a feeling of you, of insecurity, that
you're not gonna be able to To to

catch them, um, and it just becomes
this self self fulfilling cycle.

The dog's running away, and
then most of the time, you know,

again, instinct is to chase it.

Um, and then you get into the
prey predator dynamic, which

is If I'm you know, who's the
prey and who's the predator?

If you're chasing your dog, you are
establishing in that moment that your

dog is the prey and you are the predator.

Well, what's the prey's job?

It's not to turn around
and come to the predator.

That would be horrible.

The the prey's job is to run away
and get and stay away and and evade.

Um, so simply by understanding,
you know, the intention without

reservation, which once you understand
the prey predator dynamic And you

are confident in what you're doing,
which again so prey predator.

If you want the dog to chase you, then
you have to take on the role of prey.

So you have to embody a prey energy.

Um, so, again, uh, as I was explaining
to you with the the other 2 dogs, I'm

gonna make my my voice very high pitched.

Bye bye.

Bye bye.

And I'm going to like, I'm saying bye
bye not because they understand what bye

bye means, but I wanna get in my body and
my Intention of I'm about to leave you.

I'm about to run away.

Bye bye.

Um, so the bye bye is for me.

However, the high pitched voice,
The sound mimicking a prey animal,

um, and then I turn and I run away.

I run.

So now now the dog is in this, oh my gosh.

They're running away.

I gotta go get them.

And that's exactly what I'm feeling and
thinking is I'm I they're gonna get me.

This dog is gonna get me.

I gotta go run.

I gotta go hide.

And so My intention now becomes exactly
what I need it to be for them to come

to me as opposed to running away.

So intention without reservation is
is a A very important, um, tool, and

it's very important to understand how
that works with the dog if you want

to establish a true rapport Where
your dog is actually listening to you.

It's a game changer.

Always listening.

Yes.

But

Anke: that is a game changer.

Right?

I mean, I I I kinda do it
with, like, my massive puppy.

You know?

I have a puppy.

Like, she's a horse.

Like, she's 18 months old.

Is this it?

Small.

Right?

But but it's like when she's goofing
how you know, I kind of do that just

for, you know, just for the fun of it.

So often when she's running around
her, and I just kind of, like, I

crouch down, open my arms, kinda round
myself, like and I don't say anything.

Like, invariably, she'll stop what she's
doing and she'll come in towards me.

That You know?

Because, like, I'm, like, little,
and I'm, like, kind of welcoming,

like, arms open and just, like,
bouncing out, and she will I'll pray.

Time.

You know?

And it I like I literally
have experienced that.

I can a hundred percent confirm
that that is how it works.

You know, even though it's kind of
like the opposite of what we're being

told, you know, with that, like, you've
got, you know, you've gotta be and

I think that sort of sense of, like,
you have to tell the dog and you have

to tell them off and you have to, you
know, I think that's the opposite.

Like, that is so predator

Amanda: like Well, again, put
put yourself in the dog's shoes.

So imagine you know nothing about English.

You don't Speak their language.

And you're so say you're in a foreign
country and you come up to somebody

and something scares you or you see
something attractive further out and

you start to move Towards that, and
then all of a sudden, the person behind

you is yelling at you and chasing you.

What are you gonna feel?

What are you gonna think in that moment?

Are you gonna run towards them?

I mean, unless you have, like, a
background in Krav Maga, judo, whatever,

like and you you're gonna go fight them.

Um, no.

You're gonna run away.

You're gonna keep going.

Like, why would I turn
around and run towards that?

Why would I direct my energy towards
something that is acting in that way.

It just makes no again, when
it comes down to it, that

actually makes no logical sense.

When you like, we would think
the logical Cool thing to do

is to, yeah, you know, no.

Don't go that way.

Come back here.

It's it makes no sense even if
you do really put it into a human.

Even in a human perspective,
that doesn't make any sense.

Um, but it always comes back to
that that insecure need for control.

Um, but it's like, What works better?

Um, you attract more flies
with honey than vinegar.

I'm I'm gonna get the dog to come
to me and do what I want If it

feels good for the dog to do so.

If it doesn't feel good for the dog to
do what I want, which is essentially

what we're using the treats for,
oh, it feels good to do that Trick

because I get a treat at the end.

Not because I enjoy doing the trick.

I just want the treat.

And natural dog training takes
that a step further and says, okay.

Well, We can make the dog
feel good without the food.

We can give it a fulfilling
feeling of moving well with us,

of nurturing those those hunt
instincts, that prey predator dynamic.

So a dog feels good when it's
chased and caught a prey animal.

That's what it's been doing its whole life
up until we put it in a little sweater

and gave it food in a bowl and said, okay.

You're retired.

You don't have to hunt anymore.

Well, guess what?

They still have the hunting instincts.

They still have the entire evolutionary
drive to hunt, and Natural dog training

gives them an answer to that problem.

It takes that into account instead
of just, here, do this, and I'll

I'll bribe you with food, or Here, do
this, and you won't get in trouble,

which neither of those things
are very motivating in the end.

Yeah.

Anke: Actually, the the there's
a question that pops up.

Like, because especially with intention
without reservation, and I've experienced

like, I've totally experienced that sense.

Like, yeah, you can't
you cannot fool your dog.

Right?

So you can you can kind of, you
know, pretend to be, you know,

all all confident and whatever.

And, I mean, I had it, like,
when especially my first dog

when he got he got bitten.

Right?

So and then, uh, on on the back of
that, you know, obviously, I was

totally surprised in that moment.

So I definitely looking
back, I'm like, oh god.

He probably thought more useless.

You know?

He would have thought, like
you know, I was like, oh, boy.

Did I have to like, I would have
you know, if if he had rational

thoughts like that, he definitely
would have lost trust in me that day.

He was like, oh, I can't rely on that 1.

Right?

So because I was just, like, so
surprised and so, like, you know?

I mean, I did I did pull him out, so it
wasn't that I kinda just left him there

as I did pull him out of the situation.

But but, yeah, I was certainly not
grounded and calm in the situation.

And so, basically, on the back of
that, he was then very wary of of

other male dogs in confined spaces.

Right?

So now knowing that we won't have space
and he's gonna just throw himself at

whoever comes at him, you know, like
dogs, never people but other dogs.

You know?

I was then the 1 like, I'd be
scanning the horizon, you know,

kind of trying to you know?

And I'm thinking

Amanda: You you joined into the hunt.

Now now he knows what the hunt is.

I know.

And so now you're both
out there looking for a

win.

Anke: I'm like, see, now that's
where my question comes in.

Right?

So because now I'm scared of
another incident like that because

but on the back of the experience.

Right?

So now he probably has the same thing
going on, you know, and on and he will

notice that I'm, like, tense even though
I'm consciously and I probably put all my

effort in not showing it and not being it.

And still, I'm looking whether I can
see another dog coming somewhere.

Right?

Well, and and How do you
break through that cycle?

Because if I don't get through that
cycle, he will always read that.

Like, he will always perceive that
from me and which will make a part of

Amanda: whatever you're feeling.

Anke: How do I fix my end of this.

Amanda: So so, again,
intention without reservation.

So going in right now, your intention or
the way you described your intention in

your intention in those moments is, again,
you're you're joining in on the hunt.

You're you're gatewaying and
magnetizing The oncoming male dog.

With you're scanning for it.

You're looking for it.

And if you find 1, your whole
body is gonna be like, oh my god.

Oh my god.

Oh my god.

There's a dog.

What we do.

What we gotta do, and he's just all
he's picking up on is mom's afraid.

I feel the fear.

She's look oh, it's all
centered at this 1 dog.

I gotta go get him.

I gotta go.

That's that's where all
my energy needs to go.

That's how you know, this this
is this is what's going on.

That's that's the communication
that's going on in that moment.

So if you wanna change the communication,
you have to change your intention.

So first thing you gotta do is get
yourself in a place where you're Confident

that if you encounter another male dog,
you know exactly what you're gonna do.

Um, so this happens a lot because a lot
of the dogs that I walk are dog reactive.

Um, or sometimes I don't even the owners
aren't even aware or don't even see.

Um, and you also if you're getting
approached especially by an off leash dog

that's not even around an owner, You have
no idea what that dog's gonna do or how

it's gonna act or what's gonna happen.

So for me, when I'm out with my
dog or any other dog, it's If

a dog approaches us, I am no.

Like, I put my hand out.

I the whole thing is you're
not coming over here.

Like, you don't wanna come over here?

There's there's nothing
you want over here?

You're not coming.

And it's not a, oh my god.

I hope you don't come over here.

It's you're not coming over here.

You're gonna stay right over there.

You're gonna stay right where you are,
and you're not gonna come over here.

Now can that fail and
the thing charged me?

But in the back of my mind, I'm Okay.

If that happens and, again, I try
not to think about that in the

moment because you wanna let your
body take over muscle memory anyway.

Plus, you don't wanna be thinking,
Oh, but what if it attacks me?

Because then I'm communicating to
the dog I'm with that it might come

attack us and the other dog, instead
of feeling that wall of resistance of

you shall not pass, the the Gandalf,
you shall not pass, it's not happening.

Um, you know, he get He can pick up
on that sliver of insecurity of of,

you know, my intention faltering, my
me having that reservation of, oh,

he might actually cross that road.

Um, but, again, it's it's if it's an off
leash dog, um, you know, I don't have to

worry as much because my dog's on leash.

So if something happens,
it's I'm not at fault.

Um, again, of course, I don't
want something to happen, so

it's I will use my my legs.

I'll kick it away.

I'll circle around.

Um, 1 thing I know as a natural dog
trainer is to keep things moving.

A lot of people wanna stop and get
their dog in a sit or stop movement,

which actually heightens, Um, the
intensity and the the electricity

in the moment so you wanna keep
things moving as much as possible.

Um, so a lot of times when I
encounter a an off leash dog.

I won't run.

I won't move away fast, but I'll
start circling or I'll start moving

and just keeping the flow going, Um,
to kinda just not let everything come

to a head or not let everything stop.

So there's a lot of different
things you can do in the moment, but

the biggest thing is to just make
sure, Um, you are confident in what

you're gonna do in that situation.

So if you have an idea,
have a plan of, okay.

If this happens again, I know how
I'm gonna handle the situation.

Then you're no longer scanning.

You're no longer worrying.

You're no longer um, if you
see another dog, a male dog or

somebody approaching and It's,
oh, we're just gonna keep moving.

We're gonna get out and go over to that
way or where I'm not worried about it.

The more you worry about it, the
more the dog's gonna worry about it.

If you can rectify Worry.

By creating by being active, by
actively, proactively, um, addressing

it, That's how you're gonna get
that intention set within yourself.

And then, again, the dog
will fall right in line.

It's gonna be like, okay.

You know, mom's got this.

I don't All I'm picking up from mom is
confidence and fun, and we're gonna enjoy

our walk no matter what we encounter.

Yeah.

No.

That's

Anke: I mean, definitely, like, over
the years, like, I mean, like, these

days, I mean, I always say that,
like, I like, it's it's through that

process that I've come to recognized
a level of assertiveness in me

that I didn't realize was there.

You know?

Because I'm not what he was saying before.

Like, I'm the same now.

I'm just like, you're
not you're not coming.

Right.

You know?

And it's almost like you don't
you don't have to say anything.

Right?

You don't have to, like, you don't
have to yell at the other dog.

It's is like like Yeah.

You will not

Amanda: Usually, if I'm if I'm
vocalizing, it's because there is an

owner present, and so I'm letting the
owner know even though I'm talking to

the dog, I'm letting the owner know
that they need to get control of their

dog or they need to avoid or they
need to, um, it's very much on that.

Like, That's usually the
only time I'm vocalizing.

If there's no other human present, then,
yeah, it's pure body language and movement

of, yep, cool, hi, nice to see you.

You're gonna stay right over there.

We're gonna walk on by.

Like, there's there's no play happening.

Don't come over.

You know?

There's nothing to see here.

We're just on a walk, and
and you you you're better off

staying on that side of the road.

Thank you very much.

Yeah.

Anke: And it makes it just yeah.

It makes just so much of a different
so where can can people go and find

out more about natural doctrine
and connect with you and really

explore the, you know, sort of

Amanda: but the other way.

Right?

Um, I mean, first and foremost,
I like like you, um, I when I

read Kevin's book, uh, Your Dog
is Your Mirror, it it it clicked.

Everything just clicked.

It made sense.

I had gone to school for human
psychology, and I had a bunch of

questions about even human behavior at
that point, and a lot of the answers

before I even got to the dog end really
made sense and and really resonated.

Um, it was a very Like, this is
this is what I've been looking for.

This is what makes this answers those
questions that I've been internally

wrestling with for a long time.

Um, so definitely start, um, with the
book, uh, Your Dog is Your Mirror.

If if the information resonates or
if you wanna learn more or find more

digestible, Um, it is it is pretty.

It it's a dense read.

Um, there's a lot to munch
on in there, and it's it.

It's you I mean, quote after quote
after quote where you're just gonna

spend a lot of time just marinating
on just the 1 couple sentences.

Um, it's such a good book.

It's got so much in there.

Uh, there's also his website, um, natural
dog training dot com that has, Um, his

blog where he has a lot of his posts
are up on there, um, that just go over,

uh, so many different topics, Especially
if you wanna get into more of the the

theoretical side of really piecing
together, um, how he came up with this

theory and and the The complexities and
the simplicities of the theory are there.

Um, if you wanna get more into the nitty
gritty hands on working with your dog,

Um, there is, uh, the natural dog training
study group, um, where you can actually

communicate directly with, um, a bunch
of his apprentices, A bunch of the the

trainers that have worked with him.

Uh, if you wanna get in contact with
me, um, and do some 1 on like, a Consult

or 1 on 1, um, learning the the 5 core
exercises that Kevin taught, Um, and

working on rehabilitating your dog.

Or, again, maybe there's no problems.

Maybe you just wanna foster a a better
connection or really understand that

communication, um, that prey predator
dynamic, um, the the those kinds

of things, the intention without
reservation, um, you wanna, you know,

Work with your dog without even having
to use commands and different things.

Um, my website is doggies day off dot com.

Uh, all my services are on there.

Um, again, Um, my phone number, I'm
on Instagram, all that fun stuff.

But, definitely, I I would
highly recommend starting

with your dog, Dejumeir.

Um, I think that's a great place to start.

Anke: Awesome.

I'll put, obviously, the links
are gonna be in the show notes and

below this video if you're, um,
watching it through the newsletter.

So thank you.

Thank you so much.

Um, Yeah.

I definitely feel this needs to be
out there in a in a much bigger way.

And so whatever we can do to
do that, I think, uh, let's do

it.

Amanda: Yes.

And thank you so much for putting all
this effort and work into your your

podcast, your business, um, so that
there is, You know, and having me on

here so that I can help get that out
there, um, that's definitely I think

we share that in common, uh, a goal
to get more more eyes and ears and And

and mine's into natural dog training.

Perfectly absolutely.

Anke: So thank you.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Thanks so much for listening.

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That's A N k E at Soul
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