Soul Touched by Dogs

Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs
Podcast, the show for dog lovers who

see dogs not as toys or tools, but
wise souls worth our respect and care.

I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host.

I talk to poor some humans, people who
do great work for dogs and their people.

So come and join us for
today's conversation.

Anke: Hello and welcome, Christine.

I am beyond excited today.

Christine: Oh my gosh, I am too, Anke.

It's such a pleasure to be filling
so much space with you lately that

I, I think this conversation is going
to be exciting and heartwarming and

I thank you so much for inviting me.

Anke: I'm like, my heart's already warm.

So if you're listening, this
one's going to be a little bit

different from all the others.

So this time I don't have a dog
trainer or an expert, but I have

somebody who shares the love for
dogs and that's how we connected.

Like a friend we both have says, Hey,
you should really meet Christine.

You're both nuts about dogs.

And you could literally
say the rest is history.

And then about kind of two weeks
ago, I remembered the LinkedIn post

and all, I get this notification
on LinkedIn, Christine Passo

mentioned you in a, in a post.

I'm like, Oh, and all it
said in a comment, thoughts.

And I look at the post and
it was this book project.

And initially I was
like, Oh, that's great.

I'm going to share this in the newsletter.

And I did.

And then I looked at the
page and I'm like, Ooh.

So tell me, like, like, did you
send this to me with the intention?

Like, Ooh, I really think this is for you.

Or did you think initially like, Oh,
maybe, you know, someone who might.

Christine: Oh my gosh, that's such a good
question and I love that we haven't even

talked about this because we haven't.

Um, so I had had a call with Lonnee
Rey, somebody that we're mutually

connected with, connected us about
this book, which it's if, if it's

okay, I will talk about it then.

I would love you to.

My fur baby wrote this book and Lonnee,
who has published many books in the

past, in fact, she has an entire series
and um, do you remember the name of it?

Rattled Awake.

Thank you very much.

At the moment, my mind
was thinking other things.

So, yes, Lonnee Rey has, has
published a series of Rattled Awake,

beautiful co authored stories, and
she has Become aware of the love

that humans share with their pets.

And it's mostly because of, actually one
of the co-authors, something that was

going on with he and his dog inspired
her to say, we need a book about our,

the love we share for our animals.

And so I learned about it and
automatically I was in because I

suddenly and dramatically lost our
Myra back here under the blanket there.

Uh, we lost her.

on May 28th of this year.

So it's been four months.

And Anke, you and I had a call about
a month after we lost Maya, because I

couldn't have any calls before that.

I couldn't talk about it.

And so you and I talked, and at that
time you told me more about Kai and the

relationship with all of your animals.

And so when Lonnee said, Hey,
do you know anybody else who

might want to share their story?

The first and only name I could think
of, like, on the spot, was Anke.

And so then Lonnee, you know,
I'm like, days are busy, right?

Like, now I'm thinking, I need
to write a chapter for a book.

Oh my gosh, I have all
these other things going on.

Lonnee puts out this post,
and it was a no brainer.

Anke.

Thoughts?

Question mark.

And I thought of you to write.

You never know people's schedule.

I mean, we were down to the lot, you
know, down to the wire with this.

And I thought, well, even if she doesn't
have time, she knows a lot of people who

are so passionate about their animals.

And it's just an unbelievably
beautiful unfolding of events that has

brought us four co authors together.

And then of course we have a fifth
who is writing the of the book.

Um, but I just, nothing has felt
more right in my heart aside from

Being madly in love with my dogs.

Anke: Yeah, I, I feel the same.

And I, I, when I looked at the, you
know, the project, and you know when it

feels like my, almost like my body like
screamed, you've got to do this, right?

And it's like, I want to do this.

And then I'm the same.

Oh, I'm busy.

Like lots of stuff going on.

I'm not going to have time for this.

But I so want to, so I'm like, stop it.

I'm just gonna allow myself the treat.

And I really loved also the way it
was structured, because I've done

multi authored books before, and
so there was usually, okay, here's

a deadline, I need your chapter by
that day, here are the guidelines.

And, um, you know, but basically you had
to make time in your schedule to write.

So I really love the idea of like,
okay, We're going to get together

on the weekend and we're going to
actually get the book to work on there.

And I'm like, okay, yep, I can do that.

It felt it made it doable.

And also that, uh, carrot of, Ooh, she's
going to actually teach us something.

So, you know, even the idea of, of
improving writing skills, which I find is,

well, I enjoy the life out of it anyway.

And it's one of those
skills that literally.

You know, like multiply
anything else you do.

So I was really keen on that and
that, okay, actually we're going to

get to spend the weekend together.

I didn't even know how many people were
in there, you know, because the good thing

is it's actually just four of us plus,
plus Tess who does the foreword, right?

So it's not this massive
group, which I really enjoy.

Christine: You know, it's, So we
already knew it was special, right?

And then we had this writing workshop,
which was Friday night, Saturday, Sunday.

I mean, we're talking like
10 hours overall and, which

is a lot of time on zoom.

And so I want to talk about how different
all, you know, each of us coauthors

are because we all share that love
and connection with our, our animals.

And we want to talk about, we
want to share what they've taught

us or what they mean to us.

And in that, we learn the same
thing from each other, because this

is an intimate co authored book.

And none of us live in the same country,
which I also love, so you live in Spain,

I live in the United States, Hawk lives
in Norway, and Paolo lives in England.

So it's like, we're all so different,
and in that, which, that means that even

the perspective in which we tell the
story is different, because culturally.

We think and feel differently and,
and so there is such a, a beautiful,

unique concept to how we tell our
stories, yet it's all about love and

somehow there's loss in there and,
and then there's joy and it's, it's

probably the most unique book I think
I've, I've, I've seen in quite a while.

Anke: Yeah, yeah.

And, and it's interesting because,
you know, we both were saying,

Oh my God, we're like totally
exhausted, you know, because it was.

I, I, I, you know, I've created a
couple of posts and I always said

like, oh my God, this is the most
emotional thing that I've ever written.

You know, and it was hard, it was
hard to actually kind of get into

the groove because I thought like,
you know, you, we have these millions

of little moments with our animals.

And they mean so much to us, right?

But like, Kai hiding in the flowerpot,
like, how can I talk about that so that

it means something to somebody else.

Like, that I thought was kind of
hard, you know, sort of like, how

am I going to structure this so that
it comes alive to somebody else?

So there was that.

And then, um, It was literally like all
this time, really deep, a deep dive into

the memory, because he just passed this
April, so it wasn't that long ago, and

I mean, I mean, to be honest, if I'd
written about Leo past three years ago,

it would have been the same, you know,
so it's just like digging all that out.

It's, It's beautiful and it's
beautifully painful at the same time.

So it was very, you know, I think like
after almost like having this crying

as a release all weekend, so like come
Monday, I was like, oh my god, I need

a sign, like to catch up on sleep.

It felt really, like, Yeah, and then
reading everybody else's stories where

it's like, oh, and then you keep crying.

Christine: Yes, yes.

Yeah, and then that's
what was so interesting.

So of course we're spending so much
time writing our own story, right?

So we're very focused on our
language and our point of view.

So then when I did and I finally
read, you know, I was able to read

your story yesterday and Rod Palo's,
they're so incredibly different.

They're all told from a different point
of view from either the animal or from

us or a mixture and it creates such a
different differentiation, um, in theme

that it's not like reading It's almost
the same story over and over again.

You know, it's like, Oh, they had a dog.

They were so connected and,
you know, the pet passed away.

It's not like that at all.

It's completely unique.

Um, I just, it's, it's just incredibly
exciting and an honor for me, at least

to, to be in this space with you and
Hawk and Paulo and Lonnee and Ellen.

And I really think this is,
I think this I don't know.

I just have a feeling that there's
just going to be some, a great impact.

Anke: Yeah.

And I think it's this, and Hawk was
saying it at some point where it's like,

yeah, you know, everybody said, well,
I rescued Nessie, but like who rescued

who, you know, it's this piece of,
yeah, yeah, they have so much to teach.

Like we're in the process of
looking after them, even in

the process of breeding them.

Like we are the ones growing,
you know, I've had this

massive, you massive insight.

Like I was talking to Lonnee, like it
was really interesting because trying to

like, okay, where are we going with this?

You know, what am I going to do?

Like, I'm not going to write about
one dog or all of them or like how,

how am I going to put this together?

And so it's slow, kind of pretty
quickly kind of worked out.

No, it's going to be kite.

And all of a sudden, I can't remember,
like we're talking and all of like,

You know, what is it about it?

It was about this sense of being
misunderstood and misjudged.

And, you know, and all of a sudden
I feel like tears shooting up.

And that's like, for me, that's almost
like, Oh, and a real heavy inside

glance comes out through my eyes.

Always.

I cried through coach
training and, and it was.

I was like, Oh my God, I never
understood why I felt so connected

to him because it was literally like,
yeah, yeah, that was me as a kid.

I felt like that, you know, and I'm
like, Oh, so this, it was literally

this massive transformation for me in
the process of even telling the story.

So, I'm hoping that anybody reading
any of these stories, it's always

like you as a, like, when you read it,
you kind of live it in your own way.

You find your own
connections to your own life.

You know, and if anybody has an
insight that makes a difference,

that opens something up, then
I think we've done our job.

Oh

Christine: my gosh, I couldn't agree more.

And, I mean, this is just true in
anybody that we lose in our life,

whether it's an animal or a human.

I mean, I think we've That we're keen
to what they teach us in present, right?

When they're here with us on earth.

We say, Oh yeah, you're so good at that.

I've learned this from you.

When they're gone.

We're able to connect.

I don't know what it is, our heart,
maybe it's so raw, it's wide open,

uh, you know, it's in pieces and it
needs to rebuild itself, and so there's

something about that that opens us
to accepting what else they taught us

that we maybe were too blind to see.

You know, we're too caught up in life.

And that happened for me with
when Maya Rey passed also was an

unbelievable transformation that led
me to pivot my coaching practice.

I was just about

Anke: to ask you because
like for you, it's really got

that impact of your career.

Christine: Yes, 100%.

It's you know, grief to me, I've been
talking about grief for quite some time.

I thought I knew grief.

And then when Maya died, I, I got to
know grief on the lowest possible level

that I think grief can be experienced.

Although I can't say that, it's, it's
possible it could go lower, which God, God

help me when that happens, if it happens.

But to be taught that depth of despair,
um, really, truly to lose consciousness

for what is in front of me, or weights.

I mean, that's a, that's a grief that
a lot of us don't talk about because

maybe we're afraid of appearing weak
or that people are going to question

us, especially with our animals.

You know, they love to say, well,
why don't you just get another one?

What's the big deal?

And it means so much more than that.

So it, it really did lead me to focus
more on the grief that we all feel,

whether it's from end of life or
life experiences and, and to just.

Open up for people to talk about it
so we can name it and help them heal.

And that, because I'm going through
that process and I know what it's like.

Anke: Yeah.

I mean, that makes it's, you know, I'd
be saying it's like, she's proud of you.

You know, it's almost like to, to open
this up and make that conversation, give

it a little bit of a broader context.

Because at the end of the day,
it's like, yes, grief, and I've

seen post abuse where it's like,
oh yeah, that's so true, isn't it?

Like when you lose a job, when you
move house, when, you know, there's

so many situations where we experience
some kind of grief and we're so used to

just shove it under the carpet, right?

And the problem is it'll
come out somewhere.

Christine: It absolutely will.

And, you know, we're rushed by society.

We're rushed by the people that are
closest to us to move on, you know, they

don't realize they think that, you know,
encouraging, well today will be, you know,

today will be better than yesterday, you
know, and trying to encourage happiness

over sadness, that that's helpful.

And it's not because the
griever needs time to grieve.

And quite frankly, It could take
years or it could be forever, but

that doesn't mean we don't heal.

It means that love never, love never dies.

And so in a sense, we were always
grieving one way or another and

allowing that and accepting it and
opening it up to people that we care

about will help them feel validated.

And they really, they need it most.

Anke: Yeah, I love that.

Reminds me of, um, you know, one of those
short videos and I saw it and I can't, I

can't remember now who it actually was,
but, but basically a way to look at grief

that I thought was really heartwarming.

They said, well, it's like a heavy
stone in, in a backpack, you know,

in your pocket and basically saying,
well, no, the stone will never go away.

It's like a heavy stone in your pocket.

You just get stronger, so it's going to
feel lighter over time, you know, and I

think that's so true because it's almost
like, oh, this is going to wet go away.

And I'm like, I don't think it does.

It may not be top of mind all the
time for a long period of time.

It could be, it may or may not,
and all of a sudden it can come

out again like with full force, you
know, and, and I don't know, what's

your, what's your take on this?

And I know that I'm not the only one,
and I felt like a little bit guilty.

It's um, when Leo crossed the
bridge about like three years ago,

I thought, I, I don't even feel that
intense pain when a person dies.

You know, but boy, when the
dogs go, right, it's just, you

know, it just rips you apart.

So what's your take on, and I, I
have other people who like say the

same things, like it's kind of, it
feels a lot more painful and raw and

physically, emotionally, and like, it's
almost like somebody physically rips

your heart out, you know, why do we
feel more for animals than for people?

Christine: Yeah, so, you know, I'm
really, I'm a strong proponent for

saying we don't compare grief, right?

So I read an article, a really good
friend sent me an article that said

Studies show that grieving a pet
can be as hard as grieving a human.

And I said, that's a comparison.

We can't compare.

Even when you, you lose one
human and then you lose another

one, the pain is different.

The experience is different because
the relationship is different.

What you maybe depended on them, what
you sought from them, what you needed

from them, what they gave to you,
everything is completely different.

But as humans, we don't live Every
moment of our lives together, right?

Family, maybe we'll grow up
together, but we eventually move out.

You know, we're, we're, we're trained.

We are brought up to become independent.

Our animals are 100 percent independent
on us until the day they pass.

So when they come into our homes, they
are essentially, saying, I need you to

take care of me every minute of the day.

When I need to go potty, I need
you to take me outside, right?

When I'm sick, you need to clean up
my vomit for the rest of my life.

When I'm hungry, you need to feed me.

It's not like, you know, with human
children, you can have small refrigerators

that they can reach in and grab snacks.

You really can't do that with a dog.

I mean, they are relying on you to
take care of them, and you know that.

We accept that.

We accept that no matter what,
they need to be a priority

for the rest of their lives.

And even a priority in sensitivity
at the end of their life, should

we need to make a decision.

So, there is that connection
of every minute of the day that

we share with our pets that we
do not share with other humans.

And so, the grief is different.

And it's a different pain.

It is, it is a heart wrenching pain,
as is losing humans in our life.

But it's just different.

And, you know, I think there's also
something about how much we need to take

care of them for every minute of their
lives that creates that sense of loss.

It's like, I know when Maya died,
like, well, who, who am I going

to nurture all this love with now?

I mean, yes, with Zoey.

But now my heart has expanded.

How else can I express
this love that now is gone?

I mean, we had a little bunny rabbit that
started sleeping in, you know, in the,

in the brush in front of our front yard.

And we started giving
it water all the time.

It's like, Oh, let's give it a silly name.

Oh, maybe, you know, Maya's spirit
is in there somewhere checking on us.

And well, and then it stopped coming.

And it was like, my gosh, you
know, shoulders down, sadness.

I'm like, all right, well, I
just need to care for the bird.

Oh, I don't.

It's in the backyard and clean it all the
time and make sure it has fresh water.

It's like there's something when we lose
when we grieve that we need to somehow

replace that nurturing and love with
and It's very intense with with our pet.

So it's it's definitely different
Should never be compared even

losing one pet to another that
grief will be different, right?

Um, but no matter the source of what
anybody is grieving honor your own pain

And it's really hard to do, but don't
rely on other people to tell you when you

need to move on because that's up to you.

And frankly, you'll never move on.

You're just going to find how to
store that love and that loss in

your everyday life as time goes on.

Anke: Yeah, I love that.

I love that.

And it's because it's, it's when you say
it like that, the idea of, Oh my God, this

never goes, it doesn't mean that you're
going to be suffering your whole life.

It's almost like.

No, no, that rock in your
pocket doesn't go away.

You just find ways to, you know,
make it part of your life so

it's not painful the entire time.

So I think that it's just, there's
so much hope in there as well, you

know, and that expansion of love.

And so, yeah, it's as, it's as hard
as it is, it has a lot of beauty

in it for some funny reason, right?

Christine: Well, and you know what, and
I think some of us really need to create

a purpose out of it, which you found.

with Kai and writing your story.

The lesson that you now learned, right,
that you figured out and the purpose

of it and then helping to teach other
people to see this, recognize it, or

maybe, you know, open their eyes to it.

That when we can take loss that is
so much love and be, feel healthy

enough to create a purpose out
of it, that is, that's that rock.

But in a positive way.

So

Anke: if people want to connect
more with you and um, you know, find

out more about your work or simply
connect with you, where can they go?

The

Christine: best place to go is my website,
which is my full name, christinepasso.

com.

Super simple.

I have a grief support page.

I have up there, I offer brief
support on a short term basis, but

then welcome longer term coaching
to continue the healing process.

But certainly in the beginning, especially
with our pets, there are a lot of people

that don't understand, and I, I'm always
happy to be a source and coach to, to

guide people through their, their grief.

So, Christine Passo.com.

Let's have a chat.

I'm, I, you know what, if
you're an animal lover.

Let's just chat.

Anke: Awesome.

Well, thank you so much.

And I'm going to go and add the book
to the end of this once we have it

because it's going to be out in a week.

So we're going to, um, Who

Christine: knows?

When are you posting this?

Anke: Well, whenever we want to post it.

So I might post it before, or we're
just going to maybe, you know, You know,

wait until it's out and then ta da!

Christine: Right, and the release date?

The release date is
Monday, October 7th, right?

October 7th.

If you're watching this
after Monday, October 7th,

Anke: it's ready!

It's ready, and so if you're watching
this after October 7th, then the link

to the book shall be below this video.

So, you know, if you're watching, if
you're listening on the, on the podcast

app, it's going to be in the show notes.

If you're watching on, on
YouTube, it's just right below.

If it's in the newsletter,
it's right below.

So can't miss it.

Go check it out.

It's going to be a quick read, but just
make sure you've got tissues ready.

Christine: Thank you so much, Anke.

It's such a great pleasure to
share this book with you and to

continue nurturing our friendship.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Thanks so much for listening.

If you enjoyed the episode, don't forget
to subscribe, and leave a review so

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stories to warm your dog loving heart.

And if you know a pawsome human
you think I should interview,

I'd love an introduction.

Email me at Anke.

That's A N k E at Soul
touched by dogs.com.