Soul Touched by Dogs

Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs
Podcast, the show for dog lovers who

see dogs not as toys or tools, but
wise souls worth our respect and care.

I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host.

I talk to poor some humans, people who
do great work for dogs and their people.

So come and join us for
today's conversation.

Anke: Hello and welcome, Cindy.

I'm very excited to have you here.

Cindy: It's great to be here.

We've had a little chat pre, pre
conversation and it's been fun, so

I'm looking forward to the rest of it.

Anke: And the rest will
be just as much fun.

I always love sort of hitting record
when we're just having a giggle.

So let people know, where are
you based in this lovely world?

And people all question,
what's your business with dogs?

Cindy: Well, I love that you're in the
world and that, so I'm going to say,

tell people I live in near Minneapolis,
Minnesota, which is the north part

of the heart of the United States.

So, if you look at our state license
plate, it says the land of 10, 000

lakes and there's actually 12, 000
lakes in the state of Minnesota,

so we have a lot of nature.

Minneapolis is a big city, but it's easy
to get out into nature, and having dogs

through my married life and living here
has been wonderful to get out and explore.

Anke: Oh, that's so beautiful.

Um, yeah, I mean, to be honest, I
moved away from the city so that I

have more space and, you know, for
the dogs and myself as well, so.

So tell me, tell me about, you know,
what, you know, what brought you here?

So what's your involvement with dogs?

Cause it's not just, you have
your own dogs and that's it.

Cindy: No, it's been an, it's been
a journey as a, as a kid, I loved.

And that, at that point, we had a
family dog and then we had a family

cat and I had a bed load of stuffed
animals that I would have to arrange

at night and rearrange in the morning.

So I was just, just
always in love with dogs.

And during my senior week of college,
so senior week being almost graduating.

I found a dog, and I lived on campus,
and a friend lived off campus,

so that friend kept the dog, but
we couldn't find this dog's home.

And after graduation, I ended
up taking the dog with me.

I was staying in the community, so I took
the dog with me and tried my best to find

its owners and did everything I could,
working with the rescues, and they finally

said, You've been fostering this dog.

It's up to you now.

Do you want to keep this dog?

Or turn it into the shelter.

And at that point, as you know, how
it is with dogs, I was already smitten

with this dog and there was no way I
was going to send, his name was Snuka.

Uh, I was never going to
send Snuka to a shelter.

So Snuka came home and lived with me.

I didn't have any.

equipment for a dog.

So our first walks were he
even hate laugh when I think

about I had an extension cord.

That's what I had to take.

But he didn't need a
he didn't need a leash.

And he would walk with me.

We we started walking around the
block and pretty soon you knew it, we

were walking three miles every day.

And I was in love with this dog
that took me out into nature

and he loved being with me.

And when I met my husband, it was only
going to work if he and the dog got along.

So, and yes, they got along really well.

And Snoogle was the dog to which
all other dogs will be compared.

And just the best dog.

He would love to sit in the front yard.

And if, watched the traffic go by,
the people go by, never ever left.

Never ever wanted to leave my side.

So, once he found me and we created that
connection, that's, that's what went on.

But, that rescuing, that just hooked
me in, and my husband Joe and I lived.

At one time, in Michigan, on Lake
Michigan, on the beach, and when

you live on the beach, you find lots
of crazy things that, animals in

trouble, and so we were rescuing dogs
and cats and ducks and mergansers

and not that Joe took on the job.

took it all in.

He, he was always helpful, but it
became something that I wanted to do.

And it wasn't so much the rescue, it
was just taking care of that animal.

But I can't say that, that wasn't
the thing that got me going, but

what really got me going is we had
Snooka, we had the kids, and my

kids were early in their teens.

Our second dog's name was Sierra.

And Sierra died suddenly, unexpectedly,
sent us all into a tailspin of grief.

And it was really hard because when
Snooka died, it was just me and Joe,

and my daughter was so tiny at the
time, she didn't really understand.

But now I had all four of us managing,
trying to deal with this grief, and

something was amiss with the kids.

And I couldn't put my finger on it.

It was just massive tsunami of
emotions with this grief and

the only thing I wanted to do
was go back to the happy days.

And when I suggested we adopt another dog,
then the next round of fighting began,

because the years earlier when we had
gotten Sierra and everybody was on board,

this time around, nobody's on board.

Everybody was like, this is the
dog I want, this is the dog I

want, and nothing was the same.

So a friend suggested, try fostering.

And the more I looked into it, you
know, here I'm thinking, that's perfect.

We're gonna solve this problem.

We'll have a parade of dogs.

We'll have all this happy energy in
the house and I won't have to choose.

between which dog and making
it look as if I am favoring one

kid's choice over the other.

So I thought this was my out.

Oh, that

Anke: makes, that makes sense.

Cindy: I thought it was my out
for making a tough decision

and so we started fostering.

And then,

Anke: I was just
thinking, how did that go?

Because that's not that
easy either, right?

So,

Cindy: well, foster dog
number one comes in and he's a

little, we call him Pocket Pet.

His name was Poet, so Pocket Pet Poet.

And my younger daughter was
in love with Pocket Pet Poet.

So when it was time for Poet to be put
on line for adoption, that was the next

round of fighting because we realized
at that point they weren't through their

grief from the dog from Sierra dying and
now I'm asking them to give up this dog.

So I know logically what fostering,
what it means to win in fostering,

and that means you give up the dog
and open your home to another one.

So that's the win, is you have to
lose in order to win at fostering.

But nobody in our family was ready
for that, so we adopted poet.

However,

and there's always a big however, right?

So the next However, is that the
older daughter teen wanted her dog.

You know, if the younger dog daughter
gets her dog, older daughter gets her dog.

Well, of course, now the second dog
that we go to foster is this beautiful

flat coated retriever, flowing hair,
the, you know, retriever tail, black.

She's a black dog.

Beautiful almond, soft, soft eyes,
and she walked into our home as

if she knew us, and she was just
wiggly and so happy to be with us.

And there was no way I
was giving up that dog.

So that was foster,
foster failure number two.

So we call foster, we say foster
fouling when you adopt your own

foster dog instead of adopting it out.

So now I have two resident dogs.

And a commitment to
foster a minimum of six.

So instead of having one,
I now am juggling three.

And that's when I learned real
quickly what, what my limits were.

So we were going along, we started
fostering dogs, but what I noticed

is that the kids weren't necessarily
improving from that kind of click, or

you know, that part of grief that we got
when Sierra died, and we were just going

through this kind of tumultuous time.

They were teenagers, things were changing.

I remember what it was
like to be a teenager.

So we started noticing
things with the kids.

And their grades were slipping, and
their behavior was changing, we were

getting calls from school, and we
started to talk with their physicians,

our medical community, and found out,
we did some extensive work with the

kids and evaluations, and both of the
kids ended up with ADHD and anxiety.

So now we're into this whole thing at
home of medication trials and all the

different things to try and processes
and things at school and working with

teachers and counseling and family
counseling, kid and individual counseling.

And that's when people would say
to me, why are you still fostering?

Well, in the end, as hard as and
difficult it is to balance all

that, and then balance three dogs.

The dogs were just teaching
us all these lessons.

Caring for the dogs together as
a family was keeping us together.

So at this time when the kids were
spiraling out of control for all

the things that they were going
through, we had this family activity

right there in our house and we got
to see all this great connection.

And so that parade of dogs that I
originally wanted was doing what

I had hoped, just in a different
way or for a different reason.

Anke: I love, I love that, you know, yeah.

And I totally mean, I know what you
mean, like at least four of mine.

And I mean, they've
never all been together.

So there's always been three,
you know, between two and three.

So, but I think three days, all
of a sudden, quite a different,

different dynamic for sure.

And, you know, the thing that I
always associate with fostering.

As beautiful as it is, like, I, I
just, I love when somebody can do it

because it is that, you know, you find
a home for one, so you can take another

one in, you know, so, but it's almost
like a thousand little deaths, right?

So it's like

Cindy: Well, and you know, that's
an, this, this whole fostering has

taught me that As I talked to people,
so I started writing a book, my, my

whole idea about writing a book was
how to inspire more people to foster.

And that ended up and that book
hopefully will be out this fall.

And it's a little bit
different slant on that.

But in this whole thing about
fostering, I don't know how How

many people when I'd say I foster
would say no, I could never do that.

I couldn't give them up and I'm, I'm
just discovering that I think a lot

of us have a hard time with grief.

And we don't know how to
manage it, and that's what all

these years of foster dogs.

So, we have fostered 25
dogs and about 26 cats now.

And each time is, it's hard, but then
you, there's a logic that comes with it.

Anke: Yeah, so how long on average, is
there like a specific, like how long

is a dog with you when you foster him?

Because I think that also makes a
difference, you know, like, see, I'm

like, just because I would be totally, you
know, we talked about, I'm totally one of

these people that's like, you know, then
again, I'm thinking, okay, I've looked

after my friend's dog, you know, for,
you know, when she was away, I've been

looking after her dog for three weeks.

And, you know, love the dog to bits.

And I didn't struggle giving her back,
because I knew she went back to her

person, you know, so it's almost like,
first of all, time period, it's not six

months, like, so there was a shorter time
period, and I also knew for sure that

she was going into her home, or like, I
know for sure they're going into a great

home, but well, maybe I could, right?

It's all, how long on average
is is an animal with you?

Cindy: You know, there,
there really is no average.

It just depends on the dog and
oftentimes the circumstances.

So when Margo came into us,
big Margo, the big black coated

retriever, she was already spayed.

She was in perfect health and we
could have turned her around and put

her out on the web, probably within
two or three weeks, to get an idea

of what her personality was like.

Because one of the key things as a
foster and being in your home is you're

going to write a profile about them.

Do they like men?

Do they get along with kids?

Do they get along with cats?

So that people can get a better idea of.

They fall in love with the picture.

It's almost like real estate.

They fall in love with the picture,
but then you want to know the story

is, does the rest fit with your home?

And that's the beauty of fostering is
they've been in a home, you know, if

they like to walk, do they like to run?

Do they like to play ball, you
know, snuggle all those things.

And so at a minimum, usually two
to three weeks, but then sometimes.

Depending on the type of situation a
dog has been in, if they're, they've

become hugely fearful because of, or
separation anxiety, it may take longer.

Poet was a tough dog.

Poet came to us, he was three years
old, had never been neutered, he had

a lot of house issues, and had we
not him, adopted him ourselves, he

probably would have stayed within us
as a foster for a number of months.

So there's, and there's
different ways to foster.

Yesterday I was volunteering with
somebody who fosters fearful dogs,

and his, those dogs he said usually
stay with him for a year and a half.

So, he takes about a year to get them
where they need to be, and then it

takes another six months to find the
people, whereas I just had a foster cat

that he went out the door in two weeks.

So, it's And do you find

Anke: there is a relationship between,
uh, you know, like length of time fostered

and kind of risk of foster failure?

Yeah, I mean, do you find that the
longer the dog stays The more, are

there any numbers, like the more likely
it is or is it just sometimes the

connection and sometimes you just know
it in an instant and it doesn't matter?

Cindy: I

Anke: think

Cindy: it's the connection.

You know, and in the beginning
it is hard to give up.

I'm not going to say it isn't.

I mean, we had Poet and Margo because
it was really hard for me, and you

have to let that problem solving and
that ability to say no come forward.

And one of the things another foster and
I were talking about that she loves and

that she wishes people would understand,
especially as you go into retirement.

as fostering is perfect because you get to
have the animal and it's almost like grand

pairing grand parenting you get to have
the animal and then they go off somewhere

else and you go do your activities you go
travel and then when you're ready for the

animal again you have it and you don't
have to worry about where the animal is

going to go while you are On vacation
or who's going to care for it and what's

going to be like when you come back.

So the more you foster, the more you
realize, huh, this is kind of nice.

You get all the feels of being
with a dog, they move on.

And what's fun at that point, when you
have created that connection, it's not

only creating a space in your home to
take in another animal, you've just.

Matchmaking.

Yeah.

You, you watch this love blossom
and people send pictures.

They love to send you pictures and
keeping, you know, keep me engaged

in what's going on in their life.

And, you know, in the beginning,
there's a lot and maybe a few over

the years, but you get to watch
this animal fall in love in the

family, fall in love with the animal.

But that, like for me now, The next kind
of realm I'm into is working with other

fosters who are new and struggling.

How can I give them up?

And will they be okay?

And, and part of that learning to be okay
is trusting yourself that you've done a

good job with the animal, you've done a
good job screening the people that you're

working with and feeling confident and
comfortable saying yes and letting go.

Anke: I was just about to ask you,
like, do you get a say or, you

know, in where the animal goes?

Because I think for me personally,
that would make a massive difference.

Like, if I know that this dog, if I
know that person or have a sense of that

person and I'm like, This dog's gonna
have a great life with that person.

I think that's much easier to let go of.

And if you're a little bit like,
you don't know how it's turning

out, do you, like, how much of a say
do you have in where the dog goes?

Cindy: Usually, the
foster has a lot of say.

Most fostering goes through some rescue
agency, and many of them have different

ways in which they screen the people that
are interested in adopting an animal.

So, the rescue I work with,
They're like my helicopter parent.

They know what questions to
ask to make sure people are

responding as honestly as possible.

So really, if you can get that connection
going with people and asking questions

and a conversation, because the more
people talk, the more information you get.

And then you can start weighing,
am I seeing red flags and,

and feeling uncomfortable?

And that, that's part of the
process too, is just getting enough

information from somebody else.

through a conversation
to test your own trust.

How is this feeling?

So it really develops your intuition,
but I'm fortunate in that the

rescue I work with, they pre screen.

So nobody gets to me until they've been
pre screened and pretty much at that

point saying they seem to fit our mold.

So we're going to pass them on to Cindy
and let her do the final screening.

And then there's always that.

Meeting them in their home, having them
come to your own home, to see how they are

with, with the animal, you know, the dogs.

Anke: I mean, has it, does it
happen sometimes that something like

doesn't work out and then you get
the dog back or, or, or does it then

go to a different foster or like?

Does it happen?

I mean, I guess it would.

Cindy: There, I have
only had it happen twice.

Okay.

And in both of my situations,
it was a failure on the adopter

to disclose some information.

And that information tended to have
a relate to mental health issues.

So in one case, it was a family
that was getting a dog for a mother.

And she came with glowing recommendations.

She was a animal massage therapist, but
she had moved into dementia and it wasn't

a pretty dementia and they were hoping
that having an animal would calm her

and it was just creating more struggles.

So once we worked through that, and then
the same thing happened with another.

Another couple is that they wanted
it for their elderly mother and

they were going to take care of it
and when they finally got to that

moment of it's taking care of her.

There's a lot of wrecking, you know,
recognition that has to come along in

this process when it's mental health
and who's going to take care of an

animal is taking care of your parent.

As they age, it's a lot of work, and
it's hard for some people to accept

that until they actually get into it.

So, in those cases, the animal
came back into the system.

Uh, we had a, within our rescue,
we did have somebody who the animal

went out, and that's when they
discovered that one of their kids had

a severe allergic reaction to fur.

And so they couldn't be around the animal.

And it had to come back.

And it, you know, nothing that they were
trying to hide or anything like that.

They just didn't know until it happened.

Anke: Yeah, well, that makes sense.

That makes sense.

Yeah, it's a fascinating world.

It feels like it's this crash course
in intuition and psychology and

personal, like, self awareness.

And, you know, you really kind of get to
know your own emotional reactions in a

whole new way because it's just really,
It's, it's not just a transaction, right?

There's that, you've got that
connection and you've got to, you

know, manage it and appreciate it.

Yeah, I just find it fascinating.

So where can people connect with you, find
out more about, could people contact you

if they may be considering fostering and
they're not going to have questions and

not quite sure or, you know, where can
people find more, find out more about you?

I'm

Cindy: open to conversation
because the more.

We can help people get through that
hump and find other fosters to get

into it, even questions about adoption.

But I write a weekly newsletter on the
platform Substack, and my newsletter

is called Like People, Like Pets.

And it's, it's not just about fostering,
it's about how the ways that all

the different ways that animals and
humans enhance each other's lives.

But I do talk a lot about fostering
there, and so people can certainly

get a hold of me through that method,
and it's, it requires a subscription

to write, to read it, I'm sorry,
um, the subscription is free.

So it's a click of a button
and no big deal from there.

And that way people can
talk to me directly.

Anke: I love that.

I love that.

Thank you so much.

Obviously, if you're listening in
the, on the, on the podcast, it's

in the show notes, and if you're
watching it in a newsletter, it will

be just below or above, wherever,
wherever you're watching us.

so much, Cindy.

This was enlightening.

And I think it kind of.

Like what you shared and how you shared
it really sort of takes the kind of

sadness out of the idea of fostering.

So I think you're doing brilliant work.

So I'm super happy that
you came along today.

Cindy: Well, I appreciate the opportunity.

It's been fun getting to know you and I'll
be waiting for your call about fostering.

Thanks so much.

Take care.

Bye bye.

Thanks so much for listening.

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And if you know a pawsome human
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Email me at Anke.

That's A N k E at Soul
touched by dogs.com.