Soul Touched by Dogs

Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs
Podcast, the show for dog lovers who

see dogs not as toys or tools, but
wise souls worth our respect and care.

I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host.

I talk to poor some humans, people who
do great work for dogs and their people.

So come and join us for
today's conversation.

Hello

Anke: and welcome, Jeff.

I'm super excited to have you here today.

Jeff: Thank you,

Anke: Anke.

Well, let's get started.

Before we dig into a topic that's
really actually really dear to my

heart, um, let people know where
you're based, what's your business?

Jeff: Okay.

Well, I'm, uh, I'm Jeff Grognett,
veterinarian, and I'm in a place

called British Columbia, Canada.

So, it's around the world
from where you are, I guess.

And the, um, uh, that, what that
means is I'm on the west coast

of Canada, on Vancouver Island,
in a place called Parksville.

So, that's, that's where I
am right now, looking at the

water out of my office window.

Okay, uh, but the, uh, the, uh, the
way to, uh, find me if you're, uh,

looking for me is online, because
that's where, what I do now is

primarily online education teaching.

Okay, so, so that's where I'm

Anke: hiding.

Oh, that's such a lovely place,
and it's still on my bucket list.

So, well, I can basically
give away how I found you.

Because I saw VET and the word
holistic before that, so Okay.

Like, share a little bit, like how,
obviously you became a veterinarian

because you wanted to work with animals,
like what made you shift across to a

more holistic approach, or is that what
you got trained in, I would suspect?

No.

Jeff: No, no, I was trained
like any other veterinarian.

And that is, I was put into the
conventional camp, so when I

graduated, uh, that was 40 years ago,
so it's before, before you were born

probably, uh, but anyway, back then,
uh, there was, uh, they hadn't even

invented the world, uh, the word.

alternative or holistic
or anything like that.

Okay, there's still, it just wasn't there.

And so when I graduated the,
this is the key, I was told to

vaccinate dogs and cats every year.

I was told to feed them a really well
balanced food like green dog chow.

And then, uh, and then also as
I call it parasite control, just

pick the toxin you want to put on
because if it works, it's fine.

Okay.

So, so that's where I started.

And then over the years, uh, I'm, I'm
with someone who looks at things and

sort of gets critical of them and it's
kind of like, why are we doing this?

Okay.

And the, uh, one of the, one of the
best things to look at, and this is what

really started, the first thing that
started my journey was, uh, vaccines.

If you remember back in the
1990s, there was a shift.

from every year vaccines, and
then they suggested, I'll put in

brackets, every three year vaccines.

They actually didn't suggest
every three years, they suggested

it the most every three years.

Uh, but nobody read the at most
part, they just put it on three years

if they were switching schedules.

But my question was, why are we even
looking at the three year thing?

Because we know they last a lot longer.

So, so I thought we started
on that path, and then along

with that, I had my own dog.

And there I was putting I, as
I call it, the kibble that I

was supposed to be selling to
clients into my dog's food bowl.

And, uh, I thought, oh, this
is kind of getting boring.

And so I started making my
own food, going that route.

And then it was more a case of Uh,
and this is really interesting.

The, with our, with our dog, and she was a
lab pit bull cross thingy that we got from

the shelter, you know, the whole story.

Uh, surprisingly, she didn't
have any actual physical

ailments like most vets dogs do.

Uh, but we ended up, uh, just, uh,
feeding her this other, you know, adding,

uh, homemade food, and her hair coat
got better, and she really enjoyed it.

So, oh, this is kind of weird.

This isn't supposed to happen.

Because I was already
feeding the premium food.

So, that makes you
start looking at things.

And that was the path that we
started back in the, in the 1990s.

And it was like, okay, we've got
to start switching things up.

And, uh, and I took my first course
in, actually it was acupuncture.

Uh, in, uh, I guess it'd be the year 2000.

And, and that was the start of everything.

And that is I moved right
into the holistic field.

I practiced with my wife.

She's a veterinarian as well.

And between the two of us, we created
a holistic practice, which was totally

different from what we had envisioned
we were going to be doing together.

And so that really got things going.

And now, uh, because I've, I've moved
out of practice and I'm just doing the,

just doing the education part, uh, the,
uh, now I'm, my reach is so much bigger.

I'm really helping a lot more people,
uh, and through my courses, uh,

I'm really changing things on how
people look at the holistic world.

Anke: Hmm.

I love that.

I was thinking, boy, wish I'd met him.

Well, when I first got my first
dog in 2004, it was the same thing.

The vet told me here, get the premium
kibble, you know, and he had skin

problems and all kinds of, you
know, digestion wasn't right and

the fur wasn't looking too good.

And then I came across an ebook that
somebody had written who had a similar,

you know, his dog passed away early.

And he started looking and I,
the only thing I remember from

that book was read the labels.

And I started to look at the ingredient
list of the kibble and any dog food.

I've never given my dog any of that
ever again, you know, and there was the

same experience, you know, like health,
you know, the, the, the code, the,

everything changed with, you know, yeah.

So.

The people, like, are you aiming
at people like me, if you say,

well, okay, your, your educational
programs, are they aimed at other

vets and, or dog owners, or which one

Jeff: primarily?

No, I have taught veterinary
assistance for 20 years, actually.

Uh, and so that, that's for people
that want to work at vet hospitals,

but that's not a holistic program.

Uh, there's this, the only one that
would ever fly was Dimensional, which I

started two, over two decades ago, and
I'm finishing that in the next two months.

I'll be leaving that to somebody else.

Um, but the, no, the courses I'm
teaching in terms of holistic work

are not geared towards veterinarians.

Uh, they're geared, I've got two levels.

One is the, I call it the entry person
who's going, I heard about something

called holistic, okay, and they're
wondering what's the first steps and,

and the first steps, of course, are
going through the food and figuring

out what to do, and then, uh, reduce,
reducing the vaccines, so you're not

doing any harm, uh, trying to eliminate
some of the insecticides, the poisonous

insecticides you're putting in the body,
uh, so that's, that's the beginnings.

And so I've got a, I've got a program for
the beginning people, and then I've got

one for, it is called Become Your Own Vet.

And what that's for is that, for example,
if you've been feeding, uh, homemade

or raw for the last decade, you're,
you've really sorted out all the things

I just talked about, then you start
looking at, Okay, what are the things

I can really start fine tuning here?

So when my dog has diarrhea, What am
I going to do with this, you know,

rather than having to zip through
the, I call it the textbooks, which

I guess now it's called internet, but
that way you can get some really good

ideas on how to treat things yourself.

And a lot of it is being able to
just find out what's going on.

That way you've got your
own options on what you can

Anke: do.

That's so incredible, Harfolk, because
like especially I'm just thinking, oh

my god, you know, because here it's a
lot of the time, actually when I started

researching for Leo and for my dogs, I
found that a lot, especially around the

vaccinations, a lot of the, what I felt,
opinions that made more sense to me.

were actually coming from Canada, right?

And if they didn't, I don't think they've
actually made the Spanish textbooks yet.

So if you go to a vet here,
you'll get this, Oh no, no, we

need to vaccinate every year.

And they can't tell you a kind of
a medical reason why that would be,

you know, so to be able to advocate.

You know, be an advocate for your own dog.

I think that is so incredibly helpful.

You don't depend on, you know, I guess
it's like with our own health as well.

It's that same like taking responsibility,
taking ownership of it and not passing

it, farming it out to, hey, you
tell me what to do with my health.

Yeah,

Jeff: taking ownership
is the big one, right?

And the, I mean, probably the best, best
example of that is the vaccine issue.

, uh, because they're, what, what's
happened is a lot of people, uh,

this is what, this is what happens,
and this is what goes wrong.

A lot of people just start reading
things on the internet and all

they read is vaccines are bad.

They're deadly.

Avoid them.

And that's the end of it.

You know, and it's kind of
like my, my, uh, query mind

said, well, what is it exactly?

And what do we really know
about what vaccines do?

Okay.

And so the, I mean, very simply, the
reason the alarm went off on vaccines was

back in the 19, 1995, they, they found
out that, oh, Vaccine, the injection

of vaccines was causing cancer in cats.

And it's like, oh, there's
something not right here.

And so that spread into, then
spread into the dog world.

And it's not the fact that the
injections cause cancer in dogs.

The question was, well why, in
cats we're looking at reducing

to every three years or longer.

Why aren't we doing that in Dogland?

And so it spread into the Dogland.

And the, what we found out after
that, or before that actually, was

that vaccines actually do cause harm.

And that is they can
trigger hemolytic anemia.

If you've ever heard of that,
it's where the immune system,

it's an autoimmune disorder.

It's where the immune system attacks
the red blood cells in the bloodstream.

It can make them so anemic
that they die from it.

Okay, so it's a major, major problem.

Uh, the other thing, of course, is
that you can have, uh, triggering

bone inflammation in young puppies.

So you give the vaccine and then all of
a sudden their joints are just on fire.

And it's called hypertrophic
osteodystrophy, which is a great big term.

Um, but the point is that it's,
that's linked to vaccines that

have lots of things in, what
we call multivalent vaccines.

You know, and then the, uh, the
other things that, uh, of course is

vaccines can make allergies worse.

And there's a big debate on whether
or not vaccines can actually trigger

the allergy in the first place.

But the point is, if we've got
a dog that's predisposed to

having allergies, look out.

You don't want to vaccinate during
their allergy season, or you

don't want to vaccinate, period.

Okay, and then the most common disease
that dogs die from right now is cancer.

There is certainly, there's
a very proposed link there.

I'm still looking for papers that
can put this whole thing together,

but this is where the problem lies.

Conventional vets say a vaccine
reaction only occurs within 48 hours.

Anke: Ah, so you never
catch any long term.

Jeff: Right.

Yeah, and that's where the problem lies.

And so it depends on how
you decipher the data.

Even the hemolytic anemia thing,
which usually occurs about three

weeks after the vaccine, they say,
no, it's got nothing to do with it.

Well, yes it is, you know.

And, but the other, the kicker about
that one is, in the conventional text,

it says, If you've had a dog with
hemolytic anemia, don't vaccinate it.

Anke: So they do know then, you know,

Jeff: I mean, but it doesn't trigger it.

Anke: No, no, no, no, no.

It's nothing to do with.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, so obviously the vaccines are
given to prevent certain diseases.

Like that's the idea.

Right.

So.

So what's, what's one to do then?

Like the vet here will tell me, you
know, like you've got to vaccinate

and even like, I mean, I don't know,
like here there's certain things

that are like legally required, you
know, on the other hand, it's like,

well, I don't want to pump more stuff
into my dogs than, than, you know.

Jeff: Okay, so let's look at the one that
isn't usually legally required, and that's

for dogs is distemper and parvo vaccines.

Right?

And we can get away with giving, uh,
rather than doing the puppy series

where you do 8, 12, 16 weeks or whatever
numbers they come up with, you can get

away with just giving one after 16 weeks.

Okay, as in that's when all the, this
is complicated stuff, all the maternal

antibodies have gone, there's not going to
be any more interference with the vaccine.

You can give it and about 97 percent of
dogs respond to a vaccine over 16 weeks.

Now, when you were younger,
Anke, You probably had some

vaccines when you were this tall.

How many boosters have you had
since you've been an adult?

Anke: Well, I, I mean,
that's, that's the thing.

Like, I only had one and that was
for a trip to Peru where it was

required to have certain vaccines.

But other than that, you know,
it wouldn't, it wouldn't happen.

Jeff: No.

Yeah.

So it was a regulatory
reason, not a medical reason.

No,

Anke: no, totally, yeah, because
you needed to have them, or I don't

know, there was some that you needed,
and some were like, okay, don't

go there without that, you know,

Jeff: so, yeah.

Yeah, so, so the point is that we, as
a species, humans, we have vaccines

when we're little, little guys, and
then we're good for the next 80 years.

Or something, right?

In other words, and I'll specify, the
viral vaccines that we got when we were

young confer a lifetime immunity, okay?

In dog land, we know that Distemper and
Parvo are definitely good for nine years.

That has been proven.

They've done all kinds of tests on that,
so we know they last for nine years.

The World Small Animal Veterinary
Association actually said we

know it works for nine years,
comma, and possibly a lifetime.

They actually put that in there?

So, so based on that, if we can prove that
the dog has responded to the vaccine that

it got at 16 weeks old, and we can do that
by doing a titer, then We know that the

animals responded to the vaccine, we've
got immunity there, we have, and then,

and what we also say is we have memory.

And memory means that we have cells
of the immune system that have

responded, and they're going to be
there for the lifetime of the animal.

And if you read any immunology
text, it'll tell you that.

So, based on that, as long as we can
prove that, that your puppy responded,

we do not need to give any more vaccines.

And as a side thing, we don't
even need to do any more titers.

Because even if that level goes down,
the immune system is still there.

It's primed.

It's ready to go.

And so, what happens then is if the
disease came along and you've got

a dog that's 10 years old and it
was exposed to Parvo, it has what's

called an anamnestic response.

And that means it's ready to go, and it
charges up, and it kills the invader.

And this is the key.

If you ask veterinarians, how
many dogs over 5 years old have

you ever seen with distemper

Anke: or pyro?

And so we can now associate with puppies,

Jeff: right?

That's right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so the point is And it's, it's
a young dog disease, and if they've

been vaccinated, they are protected.

We know that.

And I was, I mean, when I was in vet
school, turn the clock back 40 years,

I was told that, there's two things.

I was told that the, by the
immunologists, that parvo

vaccines are really, really good.

And if you either have the vaccine
or you have the disease in a dog,

you've got immunity for life.

I was told that by the
immunology professors.

And then I went to the clinical
side and they said, don't

forget to vaccinate every year.

I mean, it makes no sense, does it?

Okay.

So, so there you go.

So that's, that's what I call it in, in
my dog world, the one and done routine.

And that is you can, you can
get away with giving the one

vaccine and then you're done.

Uh, in terms of the other ones, and you're
going to be talking about Lyme and Lepto

and all that, there's good justification
for not doing those vaccines as well.

And that's something I
go in, in my courses.

And that is, there's There's more side
effects to the vaccine than there are

protection and so, so there's, there's
good reasoning to, to avoid those as well.

Anke: Oh, but I'm so glad, like I'm,
I'm so glad to, you know, to kind of

get that confirmation because like, like
everything I've looked at, it's like

that, that's what it points to, but you
go, don't go tell a vet here, you go tell

them, you know, it's like, you've got to.

You know, and, and so, well, I'm not
an expert, like, you know, that's,

that's the conundrum of, like, you find
yourself where you're sort of critical

of, of the, the, what you're being
told, you know, but then it's like,

yeah, but they're the expert, right?

So who am I to know, right?

But on the other, on the other hand,
like, if it doesn't make sense to me, I

don't want to give it to my dog, right?

So.

Jeff: That's right.

Yeah.

Well, the, the key is you're the
one who looks after your kid.

The four legged kid, okay?

It's just like you having
a two year old daughter.

You are in charge of all the food, all
the vaccines, all the everything that's

going to create that person, uh, in good
health and growing up to be, uh, you

know, a wonderful person later on, right?

And so the key is, you're making
decisions on your dogs all the time.

And if you can get the
education, then you'll know why

you're making those decisions.

And you'll be able to make them in
the best health for their animal,

that's all totally possible.

Anke: Yeah, and make them
with more confidence, right?

So, yeah, that's So, where can people go
to, you know, get hold of the courses,

get, you know, find out more about you?

Well,

Jeff: if they want to find
me, uh, internet, obviously.

And my, um, my website is New Earth Vet.

So, New Earth Vet, all in one word.

And if you, if you go there, uh, I've
actually got a book, uh, and it's

called Your Holistic Pet, a guidebook
to optimal health, and it's free.

And so I just get on that page, go
down, you'll see a link and you can

download that book and that'll get you
started and talks about a lot about

what I just did, along with all the
other things I haven't talked about too.

Okay.

So that's a great way
to get an introduction.

Go moving into the holistic world.

Anke: I love that.

Thank you so much for, you know,
opening that whole world for people

because I think there is so much
good we can do for our docs by,

you know, taking that ownership and
getting involved and getting educated.

So thank you for your work
and thanks for coming on.

Jeff: You're very welcome.

Thank you for having me, Anke.

Thanks so much for listening.

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And if you know a pawsome human
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I'd love an introduction.

Email me at Anke.

That's A N k E at Soul
touched by dogs.com.