Soul Touched by Dogs

Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs
Podcast, the show for dog lovers who

see dogs not as toys or tools, but
wise souls worth our respect and care.

I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host.

I talk to poor some humans, people who
do great work for dogs and their people.

So come and join us for
today's conversation.

Anke: Hello and welcome, Sonya.

I'm very happy to have you here.

Sonia: Hi.

Thank you Anka.

Thank you so much for inviting me.

I'm it's absolute honor and pleasure.

Thank you.

Anke: Um, we're gonna have some fun here.

So let's start out, let people
know where in this lovely world

you are, and as always, what's
your business with the dogs?

Sonia: Um, so, uh, my business
is called Best of Behavior.

That's the American spelling of behavior,
not the English spelling, even though I

am English, but I live in America, um,
on the, in the south suburbs of Chicago.

So that's in the Midwest.

And um.

Gosh.

Uh, yeah.

I've been working with dogs
professionally for about 25 years now.

A long time.

And, uh, I started my business about
seven years ago after not having my own

business for many, many years, and a
lot of people asking me why I didn't.

But it's such a large undertaking
and I just sort of avoided it for

the longest time until I finally.

Uh, you know, bit the bullet
and started best of behavior.

Um, so yeah.

So, um, so we do, uh, a lot of behavior
work, um, a lot of aggression and

reactivity and all the other labels that
we want to say, you know, fear and, um.

And everything really.

Um, and we also do, uh, regular
training as well, which is how

I, how I originally started.

I was originally a trainer and then,
um, working for Courteous Canine

for Angelica Steiner went into
behavior in the early two thousands.

Um.

And, uh, she was one of my wonderful
mentors that I was very lucky to

learn from very early on in my career.

And, um, yeah.

So there we are.

Anke: There we are.

Well, I mean, my first question, like I,
I think you've already sort of touched on

it, it was like, okay, so wait, how is one
a dog trainer without your own business?

I didn't even think that was a thing.

Stupid work for somebody else.

Sonia: Yep.

I worked for other people and,
uh, and, and, and some of the

corporations along the way as well.

Um, which, you know, to be honest.

Most group classes are not
my favorite thing to teach.

I really do prefer one-on-one.

I love working with the dog in front of
me or the dogs in front of me, um, and

sort of narrowing down and focusing.

Um, I like group classes.

They're just not my favorite,
favorite thing to teach.

I do much prefer just working
one-on-one with clients and, and

their dogs, to be honest with you.

Anke: Fair enough.

I can totally see why.

But so that's basically like group classes
when you have a company and they offer

group clo, like puppy classes or whatever.

So they will then hire a trainer.

To mm-hmm.

To do these class.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

I, that was, I, I was somehow assumed
that, um, you know, dog professionals

would always be self-employed,
you know, so that's Yeah, I know.

I hadn't even thought that.

No.

Sonia: Yeah.

I think also a lot of companies
though, may hire dog trainers

as independent contractors.

Um, and I know that I have an independent
contractor that works closely with me.

Um, 'cause there's only one of
me and I can't be everywhere.

I can't Yep, yep.

All the time.

Um, but, but sometimes, you know,
they do have employees as well, and,

um, some of my friends in the city
have employees that have their own,

um, facilities and stuff, so, yeah.

So, um.

Yeah, I think there's lots of different
ways and it was really nice coming

into the industry to, to shadow so many
different, I mean, um, so in my second job

when I worked for Angelica, not only did I
work and learn from Angelica, but I worked

and learn with many of the other trainers.

One of them was a dolphin
trainer from Bush Gardens.

They had their own dolphins at the time.

So I would sit and watch him
and write notes on how he taught

and, and watching the people.

And how they reacted and
responded to certain things.

Obviously being a dolphin
trainer, a lot of it is, um,

performative, to be honest with you.

You know, that what you see in the shows.

Um, so he was amazing at engaging the
clients and getting them motivated

to do things with their own dogs.

And that was.

Inspiring.

I, I didn't, I, I kind of wanted
to be like him, but I didn't

wanna be him, if that makes sense.

But I certainly took a lot away from that.

So, yeah.

And many of the other trainers
that I worked with too.

So huge influences.

Anke: Yeah, I bet.

I mean, that's always.

I mean, we all learn from other people.

Like, it's almost like, you know, I
always remind, reminds me of Bruce

Lee, like, you know, you're gonna
study all the masters to kind of form

your own way out of it in the end.

Right.

So,

Sonia: absolutely.

Yeah.

Anke: So what's, what's one thing that
you think, uh, oh God, I wish people knew.

You know, from all the clients that
people come to you, the problems they

come to you with what you see, you
know, what, what do you think people

like, what do you wish people knew?

Sonia: The clients or the trainers?

The clients.

You know, one of my, one of my
lovely dear clients who's become

a friend, 'cause I'm terrible.

I'm, I'm like, I really suck
at professional boundaries.

When I work closely.

When I, when I do, I just think
it comes with like, having such

an empathetic, compassionate,
loving, kind, sort of heart.

I, I'm terrible at like keeping,
you know, especially when I work

closely with someone for a long time.

Often they just become
really good friends.

You know, and, um, so, so one of
those, um, she always says to me,

the most important thing that you
kept telling me at the beginning

was, it's a marathon, not a sprint.

And, and it was a severe aggression case
that I, she had originally hired me for.

He's incredible.

Now he's come.

So, so far they have as a team
and she, she always says that,

I remember you saying, Sonya,
it's a marathon, not a sprint.

And just keep one foot in front of the
other, one foot in front of the other.

No matter how slow you are going,
sometimes you are running fast, sometimes

you're hobbling along and that's okay.

It's just keep your eye forward.

You know, and keep moving.

Anke: So maybe that, I love that because I
think a lot of the time, you know, people,

people look for the quick fix, right?

Yeah.

So it's like, yeah, I don, I just want
my dog to stop, dog to stop doing.

Is it mostly, I think it's mostly
getting the dog to stop something, right?

So it's not so much I
wish my dog did that.

It's like, I wish my dog didn't do Right.

Something.

Sonia: Right.

Right.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Yeah, and just, you know,
having patience and just.

Trying to find that compassion for
yourself as the human and your dynamic

and your struggle, but also for the
animal that they're, you know, I know

we always say everybody knows this,
that they're having a hard time.

They're not just giving you a hard time.

Um, and it's so true
though, and it just being.

Being able to step back and create
some space emotionally to just sort

of reflect and have some compassion
for yourself and the difficulty that,

that human's feeling and the, you
know, the frustration and anger and all

those other feelings, and that's okay.

And they, they're, they're allowed
to have those feelings, you know?

Um, and the dog obviously has theirs.

And just to try to just pour
compassion upon that is, is so

important, you know, and, and allowing
the client to have permission.

To, to feel those and not
feel like ashamed, you know?

Yeah.

That really,

Anke: I mean, the shame
is a big part of it.

Right.

Especially when your dog is, I mean, I
would imagine with aggression mm-hmm.

It's probably, you know,
but it also limits your life

when you can't go anywhere.

Right.

I remember a hosted an event
once and in the chat zone, like,

you know, when people ask like.

When asked what was their issue,
there were people going like, oh,

I, I just wish I could have my son
over food cook for Thanksgiving.

Sonia: Yeah.

Anke: You know, like, the dog won't,
but like, it's like, oh my God.

It sounds kind of funny and
extreme, but you know, put yourself

into the shoes of that family.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

It's Ooh.

So, and they then go and say, Hey,
I want somebody to just fix it.

Right, right.

So how do you, how do you get people
to have patience when they already

kind of, at the end of their rope.

Sonia: Well, you know, I, I'll often
use just human analogies, you know, we

don't go to the psychiatrist one time
and miraculously walked away, walk away,

fixed, you know, it just doesn't, or the,
or the therapist, you know, and, um, you

don't see a therapist once, one or two
times usually, and everything smashed.

Especially if you have a history of
trauma and, you know, so there are so

many people with the awareness that
we have with mental health these days.

Um.

People are seeing therapists or have
seen therapists or continuing to see

therapists or multiple sometimes, and.

So I think when we talk and we sort of
help them understand and, and believe

it or not, I mean, there's quite a
few people that are on, you know,

psychopharmacology themselves and they'll
laugh and they'll be like, oh, everybody

in the family is, and then it's like, you
know, if that's what we are discussing,

for example, um, but also just to, to,
to know that they don't get magically

fixed by a therapist one or two times.

You know, that it is a process.

And, um, to have, and it's gonna be up
and down and to have, you know, try to

have patience and try to identify how
we can help them have some of their

normality back through management.

I think management, you know, is.

Usually more of a temporary thing,
and temporary might be a month,

temporary might be two years.

I mean, that's not on our timeframe
necessarily, that's on the dogs and

the issues and everything else, and
the goals if they're accessible.

Um, so I think, you know, addressing
all of that kind of stuff and, and

allowing them to, um, to, to understand
that it, it is a process, you know?

And, um, and we're gonna try
to do as much as we can, but.

To try to have patience.

Anke: Hmm.

Yeah.

Do you find, do you find there's, um,
like when there's families, like, I mean

like what in my observation, you know,
like the people who come to trainers and

with that patient mind tend to be women.

Am I right there?

Or is it like, do you find that it's
like in families that there's like one

who goes like, I just need this fixed
now, and one is happy to kind of go the

path, but then there's pressure from the
other side to say, well, hey, you know,

if you don't get this fixed by whatever.

Sonia: Um, I, I think probably yes, in my
experience it's usually been men that have

been more wanting the immediate quick fix.

But, but to be honest, um, as I look,
as I think about the last few years with

all of my clients and, and maybe I'm just
really lucky and that I just, you know,

the people that seek me out are those
really patient people, you know, that, um.

Uh, that are, that are
wanting to do the work.

The hard work, the deep work, you know?

Um, so, and, and to be fair, I
mean, most of the male clients, they

either come by themselves or come
in a family unit or a couple unit.

Um.

Are really, really wonderful,
to be honest with you.

I'm really blessed, so I'm lucky.

I love my clients.

Anke: That's, that's awesome.

That's awesome because I'm literally, I've
just literally had a, had a conversation

with a colleague early on and we
thought like, well actually, you know.

As beautiful as it is to help dogs.

Right.

I, I felt it's like, oh, I
think I'd get frustrated.

You know, when you get people in the
middle that don't see that, hey, don't

you see your dogs side look like, you
know, so, but it's, I mean, that's

fortunate that, that you've got, you know,
whatever you put out, pulls in mm-hmm.

The right, the right people.

So do you, do you work like
online only or like offline only?

Or like, do you, do you do a bit of both?

Sonia: I do a bit of both.

The majority is, um, is uh, in person.

Um, but I do, I do also work with cats.

So, um, so some of my clients
are, uh, usually across the us,

um, that I have cat, mainly intra
household aggression, um, or.

People aggression.

Um, so, um, and then of course, you know,
I do have some, um, I don't really put out

I guess that, that, that I, I don't really
advertise that I do a lot of online.

Um, and to be honest, mainly because I
am driving all around God's creation.

So it's very difficult for me to, to sit
and do virtual, to be honest with you.

Um, because I'm out, you know,
I work like six days a week.

Often seven.

Um, and I know you've, um, so yeah.

Terrible worklife balance.

But, um, so yeah, I, I am, as I move
forward more to working, doing like

my niche, uh, is, which is, um, my
passion at the moment for the last five.

Plus years, six, seven years.

Um, then maybe I will
do a lot more virtual.

So yeah.

But I'm open to doing virtual.

I like, I like virtual too.

Anke: I was just like, I
mean, this is the dog shows.

I'm not gonna go too far into the cats,
but I don't think I've ever heard anybody

get to, you know, hiring somebody to go,
Hey, my dog's kind of, uh, my two cats.

Go at each other, like, I've not
even, oh yeah, I, I mean, I've

never had a cat, so at least, yeah.

I looked after one for a little
while, like, she's so cute.

It's called, he's thrown
itself off a wall as a tiny

Sonia: I love that.

Yeah.

I get, I, I actually get a lot
of referrals from our veterinary

behaviorist up in the city.

Dr.

Kelly Ballantine and her group insight.

Shout out to them.

Um, and then, uh, um, yeah, and
then a lot through the website

and, and just referrals, so.

Anke: I didn't, I just didn't
realize that was a thing.

Yeah.

It's like, oh yeah, my
cat has a go with me.

Like, that's a good one.

Now, now the other thing I wanna kind
of dig in, you just sort threw in

there, it's like, well, I'm gonna focus
more on my niche, my real passion.

Tell us about that.

Sonia: Okay.

Um, so, uh, so for the last sort of, well.

Seven and a bit years ago I adopted
Kismet, that's one of my dogs.

And um, and I had actually six
months prior, lost my border

Collie, who was my heart dog.

And I was heartbroken and I had no dogs.

Um, and I was volunteering at the
Local Humane Society at the time.

And so, um, and doing a lot of hours
there, actually just voluntary, um.

And so I would go in and I would
clean and just, you know, get

mucky, just do all the hard stuff
that no one really wanted to do.

And nobody actually even
knew that I was a trainer.

I didn't go in there
saying like, I'm a trainer.

You know, I didn't tell anyone.

I just went in and cleaned and
took dogs for walks and played

with them and took care of the cats
and stuff and just did the work,

you know, that needed to be done.

And, um.

Transport came up from the south and,
and I was, after the cleaning, I was

taking all the dogs out individually
for walks and just outside time.

And, and I took this very quiet dog out.

Um, he was about eight months
old at the time, a mixed breed.

And um, and we went for a little
walk and, and he made me laugh and

I kind of felt a little bit of my
heart sort of glue back together.

And um, and I was like, hmm.

That's interesting.

So I put him on hold and I
brought my family the next day

and we ended up taking him home.

Um, but I will say having lost, you know,
three dogs in the previous, you know, all

due to old age, um, sort of five years.

Um, and then finishing with
Coop was, um, it was hard.

And, and I don't know, you know, if.

Um, I don't know when, I
don't know how we ever assess.

We're ready for another dog.

Um, you know, and, and I took
him home and I liked him a lot.

Um, and then I found out some stuff, um,
that made it more challenging to like

him, but I'll talk about that in a minute.

Um, but I'd say it probably took
me a good year, a year and a half,

maybe even two years, to like
really feel the, the love for him.

And I love the.

Very bones of him.

Now, I love him to pieces,
but it was a process.

Healing that loss was hard.

So, um, yeah, I know.

That's a tangent.

Anke: No, no, no.

But it's like, it's so true though.

It's such a, you know, I
mean, I, that's a situation.

I've lost two, but I've always had other
dogs, like there was always at least.

There was always two other
dogs there, you know?

Mm-hmm.

So I sometimes thought like, I don't even
wanna think about what it would be like.

For the lost dog to go.

Right.

It's just like, yeah.

Ooh.

It's hard, hard, you know?

So I can totally, totally
feel that, that it's, yeah.

Sonia: Yeah.

And I had had children in that
timeframe, so I had two very young

children and, um, and was very
busy with them, you know, as well.

And, uh, so yeah, so it was, it was a
change, but so, uh, the thing that made it

a little bit more challenging to like him,
um, they didn't really do, I don't think.

I'm not sure what they do now, but,
um, they didn't really do any kind of

assessments really, in the shelter.

So when I got him home within the next
week or two, I discovered that it was, um.

Proli, uh, prolific resource guarder,
and he would steal things and he was like

Cujo, um, the 1980s film version of Cujo.

Um, and he would, you know, steal
whatever run to his kennel and then

he was all teeth, slashing teeth,
you know, and it was like, oh, great.

And remember I had two very young
children at the time, and I was like, ah.

We have a problem.

So yes, Houston, we have a problem.

And um, what, but the thing
was, it was very, very difficult

to predict what he would.

What he would steal because
he would just steal items.

Um, especially if he could counter surf
and steal food items, high value, you

know, like human cookies or something.

And, um, and of course having young
children that, you know, five year

olds aren't very good at putting things
necessarily away and stuff, so, um.

And two year olds.

Um, so, so it was, uh,
it was very difficult.

Um, and he made me grow
and stretch and create.

So he is a wonderful teacher, teacher.

So

Anke: the dogs are the best teachers,
the best, especially the difficult ones.

You know, the difficult dog.

Right?

Absolutely.

It's the one that, that questions
everything you thought you knew.

Mm-hmm.

Like or challenges.

Sonia: Yeah, challenges.

Everything you thought you knew.

Yeah.

About dogs or training
or anything like that.

And it's like, okay.

You know, that was the thing is I,
I, you know, I'm holding my wonderful

copy of mine by Jean Donaldson and
I'm like, how do I, how do I do

this with everything in the house?

This drug of steel, anything and
everything, and then God, the ever-loving

crud out of it, how can I desensitize and
counter condition everything in the house?

You can't.

You can't.

And, and it, you know, it wasn't constant.

So I had to identify when and the
context and I, and it was, it really,

um, it really stretched me and groom me.

And, um, and I kind of developed some,
some techniques and, um, protocols.

And then I had another dog five, five
years ago that came for a board and train

for severe resource guarding and, um.

And I was like, okay.

And so he grew that even more.

Um, and then over the last five years,
you know, I've just been like, okay,

there is a need for, you know, not just
my dog, but many other dogs that, that

have this, um, you know, these kinds of
resource guarding patterns that Aren.

Predictable.

Um, but even when they are predictable,
you know, what else is there?

What else can we do other than
desensitization and counter conditioning?

Um, and why, why would we want to do this?

Um, how is it helpful?

Uh, you know, those are the
questions I just started asking.

I'm a, I'm a question person.

I always want to know, well,
why, you know, why and how.

And, um, so yeah.

So that's, that's what
I kind of developed.

Mm.

Anke: That's so interesting because
I'm just like laughing like little Leo.

He was, well he wasn't unpredictable,
he was very predictable.

I called him sometimes Imelda Marcos
'cause he loved leather shoes and socks.

Like literally like he went,
he wants ate Aline socks.

You know, we laughed about this like
later these little, you know, these,

this little pantyhose little kind of.

Separate.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

You know, while she was trying on
her dress, like he was just go, and

then he would go when you come and
oh my God, and then he'd swallow it.

So you wouldn't take it away from him.

Right.

So that was always like, I would then
always have to trade it for something

that, you know, he liked better.

Because if I.

Came.

And if he got the sense that I was
trying to take it away from him, he'd

swallow and he'd swallow anything.

Right.

So that was like, have to
be really careful with that.

But when he trained me well to keep socks
and shoes in, in their place, you know?

Right.

And I don't even know what you
do if it's with everything.

So like, from everything you've kind of
investigated around this, um, what do you

think it's, it is at the source of it.

Like why, why do dogs do that?

Sonia: Well, it depends.

Sound like a trainer.

It depends.

I would say a lot of it is insecurities.

Um, insecure attachments.

Um, in food insecurity, obviously,
uh, object insecurity can be, you

know, but yeah, a lot of insecurities,
um, um, unknown, you know, they're

not quite sure what to predict.

Um, interestingly, the, the last dog
that I had for board and train had

had the predicting sort of occurrence
of trading, was now poisoned.

If you try to come in and trade,
he would get even more aggressive.

So even trading has to be
done very carefully and we

think it's kind of foolproof.

Right.

I have something really good.

Better than you have.

Give it to me.

Um.

But if it's not done correctly or with a
certain type of dog, we can poison that.

So that actually became a cue for him
to become even even more upset and

have bigger feelings and God even.

And, um.

And be more proactively aggressive.

So it was, yeah, he, he was,
he is a very interesting case.

Anke: So how do you go about, uh,
starting to break that pattern or to

ease that, like where do you start?

Like how, what do you do?

Sonia: So I think that dogs need to go
sort of through, like with anything that

we are working, they need to go through
like a decompression period, um, and.

And if we can, we need to kind of go
through an item deprivation period of that

object while we build up other skills.

So if we can build up, if we can
build up, um, more sort of operant

protocols, but it's not just about
operant behaviors, it's about the

emotions, um, that we can create.

So kismet singing to me now.

Um, yes, you, I know you're the
famous dog that started all of this.

Um, um, because, because they
have a pretty pessimistic outlook

around when they have an object,
and sometimes it can be to provoke.

Um, attention or something.

He sounds like a yodeling dog.

Doesn't he's,

okay.

Sorry about that.

Um, okay.

Um, uh, and chronic stress as well
needs to be identified if there's a

source of chronic stress, um, or, uh.

Um, and that needs to be decreased.

Um, and obviously pain or medical
issues, you know, always have

to be addressed If there's, um.

If there's an issue around food and stuff.

Um, and, and obviously we know that
with resource guarding that uh, they

often have touch sensitivity, um, which
is obviously sometimes linked with

trauma or physical trauma or physical
malady, you know, that there's an issue.

So that's kind of where we start.

Um.

He wants to come out, gimme one session,

Anke: come on.

We wanna see that little artist.

Um,

Sonia: and um, often,
oftentimes, there's relationship.

Challenges, um, insecure attachment
challenges or maybe they've,

um, attached to something else.

Um, that's a whole other thing though,
but, um, but can still be a part of it.

But yeah, so we, we want to look
at the relationship and the quality

of the relationship, which, which
oftentimes isn't always wonderful

because of the issue and it just
kind of spirals and increases.

So, um, so.

So sometimes it's good to have
decompression away from each other.

You know, I, I posted recently
on my Facebook about, uh,

doing like board and trains.

'cause most people, whenever I
see people asking about board and

trains for resource guarding, people
usually are like, oh, absolutely not.

You know, you mustn't do
board and trains for, for.

Resource guarding and it's like if
you have the skillset and are able

to, it can actually really help, not
only the dog, but it can really help

the owners as well, or the guardians.

So, um, it was just a, it was sort
of an invitation for people to

sort of look at it to different.

A different way and consider the positives
and how we, how everybody can benefit.

Um, so yeah, so that's
kind of, but um, so that

Anke: means if somebody, like,
they, like if, if my dog just won't

give the socks back, then Uhhuh,
you know, I mean, I guess I, one

of what makes sense to me is that.

Yeah.

If my dog then stays with you for
a while, then, then it's almost

like it's a different environment.

Mm-hmm.

Like everything's kind of reset.

Right.

It's so much harder to do that
if, if it's, if we are in our

typical little rhythm that we have,

Sonia: right?

Yeah.

And, and as we know, the environment
cues behaviors, and that's the

inner environment of the dog as
well as the outer environment.

And that's, those are huge.

And also behavior.

So like I just said,
you know, um, assessing.

A dog.

How, how are you, you know, if I
come in with a potential trade as a,

as a, an environmental cue, right?

I am part of the environment.

How does he respond or
how does she respond?

Um.

So we can change the environment.

Um, it doesn't usually give them an
immediate, uh, like clean slate obviously.

Sometimes you'll see it
straight off the bat anyway.

They're like, I'm so good
at this, let me show you.

Um, and then sometimes, you
know, it will take some time.

Um, but it is incredible how.

Even in my home because I do board
and train in my home, um, how

similar environments can still
predict behavior even though

they're not the exact environment.

It's very, very interesting.

Very interesting.

Anke: So, so what's
the best case scenario?

Is that something that a dog can
overcome or, I mean, I actually thought

with Leo, I, I remember there was,
there was one and it was around autumn

or something, but I thought, look,
I think Leo doesn't do that anymore.

I, I can't remember the last
time he's stolen anything.

And literally the next day I had
some washing hanging and off he went.

Oh, that was just because for the
last five months it's been warm

here we've not worn any socks.

Right, right, right.

So, so it wasn't like he was
still like, given the opportunity

he would take it, right?

Mm-hmm.

Um, so in your experience, is that
something that, uh, you learn to

live with or is that something that
a dog can let go of or, or what's

like a best case scenario outcome?

Sonia: So I think they're never.

Fixed or cured.

I really it very few, depending
on the severity as well.

And depending on the source, you know,
of the, of the behavior, the root causes.

Um, and depending on the dog,
they're such individuals, but I

always kind of call them recovering.

Um, resource guard is, they're in
recovery, just like, um, just like many

other challenges that humans have where
they might be in a recovery program

and it is a constant, uh, you know, a
constant daily sort of work, you know?

Um, and I kind of find that a lot of them
are like that, to be honest with you.

I don't, I don't, I'm never sort
of like, well, they're cured now.

Um, I think it's a process
and, and hopefully as we've.

Created protocols and we've developed
more and more trust because trust

is a huge, huge, important part
of, of this, these, this work is

building trust, building predict,
predictability, um, and so that they can

say, ah, I know what we are doing now.

And I, I opt in.

Um.

And so that trust and that
relationship building is, is critical.

Um, you know, so oftentimes I'll hear
from people, oh, but I don't want them,

you know, picking up an item and coming
to me and saying, can I have a cookie?

And SW swapping it.

And I'm like, why?

That's so much better than
potentially being bitten.

And when I often see these dogs, they are.

4, 5, 6, 7 bites in and
they're getting worse.

And so I'm like, so what if
you give them a cookie because

they brought you a shoe to me?

That's brilliant.

Yeah.

I want that.

I want them to say,
Hey, look what I've got.

Can I have a cookie?

Abso absolutely.

You can have a cookie.

I'm happy to give you a cookie
and keep our relationship good.

Um, as opposed to going all the
way back to stealing and then

guarding and, you know, and biting.

It's like.

Why would I think that's a problem?

I don't for resource guarding, you know?

Yeah.

Um, to me that's, that's wonderful.

That's like, hey, you know,
I, I bring in my little token.

Can I get a goodie?

Absolutely.

You can get a good goodie as
opposed to No, you can't have it.

And yeah.

And I will bite you if you come near me.

Um, kismet does that.

He'll, he'll, occasionally,
well, he brings me shoes.

Um, one to say I need to go outside to
go potty or two, just because he wants

interaction, or three because he, um.

He, uh, he'd like a
cookie and, and it's fine.

It's fine.

You know what I mean?

I'd, I'd much prefer that than
the dog that I lived with seven

years ago and six years ago.

God.

Yeah.

Anke: Actually, it reminds me, reminds me,
I was in an Airbnb once and they had a,

a hunting dogs, like a Ong or something
like that, and he was super cute and he

would come, like on the last day I was
having breakfast and there he was like.

This, and he had like, he'd stolen
the socks from the washing basket

and he was bringing it to me,

Sonia: so it do have like lovely
smelling feet or something.

Socks.

Socks, D feet.

Anke: He stole his own people socks.

Like that wasn't, oh, look at you.

He just brought it to me,
which was like really sweet.

And then he'd go like, you know, with.

Pull up and I still have that photo.

It was really cute.

Sonia: Aw,

Anke: that is cute.

So where can people go and find out
more about you and contact you if,

you know, if they want dishes back?

Yeah,

Sonia: right.

Oh, they, they're living with a Cujo.

Um, so, uh, yeah, so I'm on Facebook
as you know, Sonia Fling, and I'm more

active on there than my own business page.

Failing.

Uh, of, best of behavior.

Um, I am on Instagram and I'm
trying to be more active on there.

It's just, you know, busy.

Busy.

Right.

Um, I am hopefully working on a book.

Um, so I will get that
together and, um, I have a few.

Uh, presentations coming
up in the next, in 2026.

Um, I'll be presenting at the
MET conference, the online MET

Conference, um, and then also
at the Canis conference in, uh.

October, 2026.

So in Schaumburg, which is
just outside of Chicago.

So, um, those will be two places, um,
where I'll be able to be presenting

more of my, my work so you can see it.

Anke: Awesome, awesome.

Well, when the book's out, I
shall definitely invite you back.

Thank, we wanna know all about that,
so thank you so much and, um, yeah,

absolutely delightful and yeah, I
think there's a lot, there's a lot.

I mean, just for thinking even the dog.

You know, a friend of mine, like, yeah,
he's kind of, and he gets in trouble with

the other dogs because he'll get kind of
nervous when somebody walks past him that

somebody might take his toy and stuff.

Right.

So, and it causes tension.

So it's, it's a real thing.

Mm-hmm.

Like, it, it's not a, it's, um, yeah.

And it's, it's definitely,

Sonia: it is stressful.

It is, it is very stressful.

It stressful for everyone involved, right?

Mm-hmm.

Anke: You know, the dogs and the people
and the other dogs in the house and yeah.

So, yeah, definitely.

Sonia: Absolutely.

And well, thank you very much
Angela, for having me on it.

Thank you.

It's been an absolute
pleasure and well thank you.

We'll

Anke: pop the link below, below,
you know, the video and the audio,

wherever you're watching it.

And, uh, go check her out and I
look forward to having you back.

Sonia: Aw, thank you.

Thanks so much for listening.

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