Soul Touched by Dogs

Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs
Podcast, the show for dog lovers who

see dogs not as toys or tools, but
wise souls worth our respect and care.

I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host.

I talk to poor some humans, people who
do great work for dogs and their people.

So come and join us for
today's conversation.

Anke: Hello and welcome, Jill.

I'm super delighted to have you here.

Jill: Thank you.

I'm excited to be here.

Anke: Awesome.

Like let's start, as we always
start, let's let people know where

in this lovely world you're based
and what's your business with dogs.

Jill: So I am based in the East
San Francisco Bay in California.

And I was basically born
in love with animals.

Aw.

So, um, but especially dogs.

And, uh, so, um, I have, uh.

Stewarded, uh, 10 dogs of my own.

I currently have two.

And, um, I've fostered
probably just as many.

And, um, I, I use the word
steward because, um, you know,

we don't really own them.

They are their own personalities.

Um, but they give to us so freely.

And, um, I have trained, uh, two
dogs through, um, national, um,

uh, championships and, uh, in
agility and, um, it, I love agility.

Agility is just the best
because the dogs are off leash.

They can do whatever they
want and they choose.

Two, try to please you.

And the thing that most amazes
me about dogs is that they choose

humans over their own species.

And I don't know of any
other species that does that.

Um, it really is truly a remarkable bond.

And, um, so it's, it's, it was sort
of, of course I was going to, um.

Put my, our author Life in with Dogs.

So I have written three books,
uh, with dogs as a main character.

And, um, my goal is to, uh.

Um, educate through entertainment.

And so, um, I have these fun books.

I have a series of three and, um,
they each feature, uh, a dog that

sees ghosts and, um, my journey.

So this is, um, this is
the first in the series.

This is, um, between
shadows, eyes, and um.

My journey, uh, to how I wanted
to educate was kind of convoluted.

So I started out, um, with
the dog being a border collie.

A mix, which was totally, um, fashioned
over my own dog who was a foster fail.

It was the only, my only foster fail.

Um, but during the process of the
writing, I started, uh, writing a, um.

A dog rescue column for a local paper.

And, uh, my publisher, um, had a friend
who had this doberman that, um, had a

crazy amount of Instagram followers.

Um, at the time there
were like over 200,000.

Um, but she rocketed, um, even
during the course of, of the three

books that I've written, um, to
over 500,000 plus, she had, um, 1.6

million TikTok followers.

So she became this ambassador
for the Doberman Species.

And I started to think, you
know, how can I promote?

Dogs in my book and I thought,
well, you know, Dobermans have

gotten a really, really bad rap.

And, um, so I, I contacted the owner,
um, Charles Lindsay of um, Ruby.

This is Ruby.

Um, her Instagram handle
is Ruby Dooby Doo.

And, um, she, um.

Sh it, it, it, my, my original dog
was a, he, I had to make it a, she

or I didn't have to, but I, I wanted
to be as close to Ruby as possible.

And so in the, the, at the end of the
first book, um, just a little bit about

the book, it's, it really is entertaining.

It's a suspense novel.

My protagonist is a teen girl who's
been, um, uh, orphaned and she

rescues this doberman and it turns
out the Doberman can see ghosts.

And when she puts her fingers
between the dog's eyes like

this, she can see the ghost too.

And she's trying to keep it quiet
that she's living on her own.

Um, and the dog's barking and
she's getting notices from

complaints from the neighbors.

So she takes the dog to
an animal behaviorist.

And the animal behaviorist has a
history with the ghost in our house.

So there's all this tension.

We don't really know what people's
motivations are, and she is, you

know, constantly being, um, reassured
by her dog, who is sweet Doberman's

can be very, very, very sweet.

And I think people don't realize that.

And so in this book, I'm really
trying to de-stigmatize the breed.

Um, and uh, so that was kind
of my goal for the first book.

Then in the second book, um, this is, uh.

From shadow's perspective
and, um, she has been outed.

She, um, she now lives, um, part-time
next door with her neighbor, uh,

which allows her to keep, um, the dog.

Um, and she's back in high school.

She was trying to, you
know, do crazy odd jobs.

You know, slip under the wire.

She really didn't want to go into
foster care, but she's been outage.

She's back into a normal teen life.

She takes her dog to, um, an art
class and uh, the dog is barking

and she of course puts her fingers
between the eyes and sees there's

this little ghost, toddler boy in the.

In the room.

And so she starts being an amateur sleuth.

What happened to this little boy?

It gets very suspenseful.

It happens on Halloween night, and
of course the, the animal behaviorist

has some a part in this as well.

Um, and in this book, um, I
really, um, wanted to make people

think about, um, what their.

Um, living situation is and is a high
energy breed appropriate for them.

Um, you know, putting a doberman in
a crate for eight hours while you're,

um, while you're working is probably
not the best life for that dog.

Um, but, you know, maybe a small dog
is more appropriate for that situation.

So I really kind of, uh,
go through, you know.

Being a responsible, um, steward
and finding the I love about Right.

Um, and then in the last book,
um, the sad thing, this is,

um, uh, I'm terrible at this.

There we go.

Um.

This book, um, uh, my protagonist
is exploring her roots, um, and her

mother, uh, comes and visits as a ghost.

Um, so she's, uh, really
grappling with, um, family and,

um, and in, in, in the, um.

Chaos of an earthquake.

Um, so she has, again,
interactions with the infamous Dr.

Griffin, uh, the behaviorist.

And, uh, again, a lot of suspense,
a lot of, um, a lot of emotion

about family and what family means.

And of course.

Shadow in every book is sweet.

And, uh, in particular in
this book, she saves the day.

Oh,

Anke: got a love book, book
where the dog saves the day.

Yeah.

Jill: Um, and then at the, at, in the
end of the book, I really talk about,

um, unfortunately, um, during the
writing of this book, Ruby passed away

from DCM, which is a heart condition.

Um.

I can't remember what the, um, acronym
stands for, but a lot of large breeds have

this, and Dobermans in particular have
this, um, condition and it's, it's awful.

Um, they can literally be out
chasing the ball and fall over dead.

I.

Oh.

Um, and, uh, Ruby had an early diagnosis
and that enabled, um, Charles, her, his,

her owner to, um, manage the disease
and, and really prolong her life.

And so in the back of this book, I
talk about DCM and I talk about early

warning signs so that people can know.

Um, what to look for, what to watch for,
and get the dog to the vet immediately

if they start seeing symptoms.

Hmm.

And I can actually tell
you some of the symptoms.

I looked them down.

Um, so some of the early symptoms
are, um, uh, decreased tolerance to

exercise, um, heart murmurs and um.

Irregular heart rhythms.

Um, and then as the disease
progresses, they might start coughing.

They might stop eating as much.

Um, their gums get pale, they
get, can get abdominal swelling.

It can be difficult for them
to rise through their feet.

And then in, in.

Severe cases, um, they might start
panting, um, their tongues can

turn blue and they start to drool.

Um, at that point it is imperative
to get the dog to a vet.

Um, but really, um, you know,
it, it's a terrible disease.

It can happen, you know, in
the snap of a finger and you

don't even know the dog's sick.

So, you know.

People should really keep their eyes open.

Anke: Yeah, for sure, for

Jill: sure.

Anke: No, I love that.

And I love the whole idea of a serious,
and so were you like a writer before

you started, like, you know, focusing
on dogs or like how, how did it occur to

you to, you know, package those lessons
and those goals that you mentioned in?

Because you could have written like
an educational kind of nonfiction.

Book.

Right, right.

So, but you chose to wrap it into.

Into, you know, fiction.

And that's not just a decision.

Like there needs to be
a skill behind that.

Like, so I can't just go, I was like,
oh yeah, let me just write a novel.

Like, you need to understand structure
and character development and have

a plot and, and all these things.

So did you know all that before or,
or which, which way around did it go?

Jill: So, I actually have
a science background.

I, uh, have a master's degree in
environmental management and a

bachelor's in biological science.

And, um, my first book, which still
is not published, I, uh, I wanted to

write about environmental disasters.

And I started out with the idea of
writing, you know, a science based book.

And my husband said to me, said, you know,
you're kind of preaching to the choir.

Why don't you.

You know, do this idea of,
of entertaining, uh, but

still educating people.

And it just like clicked with me.

So, of course, I did not know how to
write a novel, so I went to classes and

I, uh, studied and, and did all that.

And, uh, and so my first book was, um,
was based on, uh, the introduction of

the mosquito in Hawaii in ancient times.

And I do plan to go back to it.

It's just other things got in the way.

Um, and uh, the, my first
published book was I went to,

um, Africa on an African Safari.

And I learned that three rhinos
were being killed every day for

their horns, and then it was like.

I have to do something about this.

So I, I wrote a book again, it's a, a,
a young protagonist who goes on safari.

She's dealing with relationship problems
with her dad, and then she gets lost in

the bush surrounded by fire and between
rhino poachers and two endangered rhinos.

So I, I love writing suspense.

I love writing.

Um.

Uh, about animals and I also, it's

Anke: a cool combination.

I really love this idea, you know,
because to, because I think we do

learn best through stories, right?

And when we can really identify
with, with, uh, with the character

and, you know, but that's.

I love that.

I love that.

Jill: Well, if you think about it,
traditionally that's what humans did.

They sat around the campfire
and they told stories.

They told folklore, they told things
to, you know, keep the kids in line.

You know, the boogey
man's gonna come get you.

Um, and so to put it in book form, it
just seemed like, you know, my husband

had the idea, but I just like ran with
it because I thought it was brilliant.

Anke: No, I agree.

I agree.

Totally agree.

So what, do you know what your, like is
your typical reader like a teenager, like

identifying kind of, or is it older people
or do you, what do you like, do you know?

Jill: It's, it's mostly older people.

Uh, you know, I think it's a sort of a
misnomer that young adult books are for

teenagers because, uh, a young adult book
can deal with very sophisticated issues.

Um.

And my reader is someone who likes
to, you know, reengage in that time

in your life, which is so formative.

Right.

And a lot of adults, I'd say the majority
of young adult readers are adults.

Um, so yeah, my, uh, a lot of
my, uh, you know, of course

I do have some teen readers.

Um.

But the focus, especially with the
Safari books, I mean, a lot of people

read the, uh, I have two in that series.

Um, the other one's called the, well,
the first is Rhino in the Room, and

the second is Queen of the Rhino.

Um, and, um, people that are going on
Safari because the other, my other goal.

With those books was to, um, to
educate or to basically create the

experience of a safari for people who
can't go there for whatever reason.

If it's, if it's financial or, um.

Health reasons or, or whatever.

I really thought it was such a magical
experience and I wanted to share that.

Um, in way in the second book,
queen of the Rhino, there's a

doberman that has a cameo in there.

I have to put those dogs in there.

Anke: Fair enough.

I think think you're totally right.

So when you.

Always fascinated about the book writing,
like, so when you have an idea for a

new project, like where do you start?

In your mind?

Do you start with like, okay,
here's the core message I wanna

bring across, or do you have first.

An idea or a spark for a storyline and
then pull out the, the lesson or the,

the moral of the story afterwards.

Jill: You know, it really is a process.

Um, so usually the idea comes to
me, um, first and, and usually

like, um, the current, one of the
current projects I'm working on

is, again, a doberman, uh, is my.

My, my dog breed, just because I
really wanna promote the, the breed.

Um, and I have a lot of
Doberman, uh, followers.

People don't have Dobermans.

Um, but, um, this Doberman
is, uh, a scent detection dog.

Uh, and, uh, it has learned,
she has learned to identify,

um, a diseased beehives.

And so I'm, I am, and I did not know
this at the time when I first started

writing it again, it's a process, but,
uh, 90% of the USBs come into California

in February to help pollinate the, um,
almond trees in the Central Valley.

And so what would happen if a lot
of those hives started to collapse?

And so, you know, I, I, I, I, I took
that idea and I'm running with it.

So, um, different, different,
uh, main character.

This actually is a, an adult
rather than a young adult.

Um, she's in a, a college, uh,
and, uh, again, suspenseful.

You don't quite know what's going on,

Anke: so you have that idea and
then you develop the characters and

the plot and all of that around it.

Jill: I'm very plot driven for sure.

Anke: Yeah.

Jill: Yeah.

And then, you know, of course the
message, you know, is climate change,

pesticide use, you know, getting
into my environmental roots here.

Anke: I was just thinking, see, I
always find there's a really magic.

Spot when sort of different passions
merge and there's this, there's

this spot where they overlap,
where all the pieces come together.

Right.

And it's all kind of, yeah.

I think that's a very, um, powerful place,
place to be and place to create from, you

know, because yeah, there's just something
about that when it's not just like, oh,

it's the dogs, or it's the science, or
it's the, you know, like, it's when.

There's a place, and I, I feel that you
found that medium where you have that

artistic expression, you get to bring
scientists there, and you work, you get

to bring the love for the dogs in and,
or, you know, animals in, in general.

It's, um, yeah, it's, it's a
really, really powerful combination.

Jill: And in the, um, in this book, um.

I keep doing this wrong from perspective.

Um, I actually snuck in, um, agility.

Anke: Ah, I was gonna ask you about that.

I was gonna ask you about it.

The thing is like, I love watching
it, like, and I love watching.

Um, like there's really two
extremes that I love watching.

It's like the winners.

Know, and I remember there was some, like
a, a, a dog training, a couple, like they

basically had, you know, had a membership
that I was a part of and she went on and

took her that little cocker that I kind
of knew from all the lessons because she,

he was always the Guinea pig all there.

Like, you know, the, it was all
very, like, it was all game space.

It was literally you play with
your dog and the dog learns

stuff in, in the process, right?

And so there was all, all.

Ated something.

She would use that little, and then
he still, and still learning himself.

She went him.

And she won the thing.

Like, oh, I was like, oh my God.

Blitz the thing.

You know?

And it felt as if, right?

And then on the other hand,
there's like, who's kind of like,

yeah, well I couldn't be asked.

Like, I'm just gonna do, I'm just gonna
take off the poles here and I'm just

gonna sit here and do whatever I want.

Like, like these kind of like fails
or these really big dogs who just

kind like, you know, and I just think.

And if there's one question
that always shoots to my mind is

like, how does one teach this?

You know, because I can have a
little agility course in my backyard.

And then the dog will know these
elements and these tunnels and

you know, but then they go to a
competition and it's all different.

Like, how, how do you teach a dog that,

Jill: well, you teach them Actually,
what's really interesting about dogs

is that they are really watching your
body language more than anything.

You could be, you know, be pointing
like, you know, go this way and,

uh, you know, or left or right.

And, um.

If your feet are pointed the wrong way,
a lot of times they'll follow your feet.

So it really is this dance of, you know,
how am I comm communicating with my dog

in such a way that it, it understands.

What I want them to do.

And, uh, most of the time when, uh,
we don't qualify, it's my fault.

I forgot the course at for an instant
and I was supposed to have my feet

pointing this way, and instead
it was pointing at the dog walk.

And sure enough, the dog took
the dog walk and it was my fault.

Anke: That's interesting
because my mind is like, how

do I teach the dog what to do?

But it's actually.

Like you are the one who
has to memorize the course.

I know.

Yeah.

And so basically the dog will
always do the same thing.

They will follow your guidance.

Right?

And then wherever you guide
them, they're gonna go.

Right.

So do you need to learn the course?

Basically

Jill: you have to learn the
course, but they also have to have

the foundation on the equipment.

'cause it can be dangerous for the
dog when they're going up that.

You know, a-frame or go on across a
dog walk, and if they decide to bail,

I mean, it's six feet off the ground.

Anke: Yeah.

So

Jill: you have to teach them the basics.

You, and you have to teach value because
why not go sniff over there in that

corner where that, you know, ground
squirrel was just, uh, digging a hole.

Right.

You have to create more value for the
obstacle in your relationship than a na

another potentially natural behavior.

Um, uh, I was also gonna mention that,
um, with this new series that I'm

working on, um, you know, I don't.

Really know that much
about scent detection.

Um, so I have two dogs.

Um, I have, uh, my, uh, dog
Charlie who's doing agility.

We're going to nationals next year at CPE.

I'm excited.

We've already qualified.

And then I have a, a little, um,
cattle dog mix who is, uh, agility

fail because she has, um, luxating
patellas her, her knees slip in

and out, so she couldn't do it.

And so I put her in nose work.

About a, a year, almost a
year ago, nine months maybe.

Um, so I'm learning all about
nose work and scent detection.

It's a whole other ball game.

It's so much fun.

Um, and, uh, you know, I originally
I was gonna do, you know, a couple

sessions, just learn enough for
the book and now she loves it.

I love it.

We are in nose work.

Anke: Love it.

So how does that work?

Like if you kind of go to nose work class?

So what happens?

Jill: Uh, so they start out teaching
or my instructor, there's different

ways to teach it, but my instructor
starts with food and you start putting

the food in boxes and uh, and then
they learn, oh, boxes means food.

And then you slowly transition to
putting the, um, food on, you know.

Tables or chairs or, um, other things.

And so then they learn, oh,
a chair could have something.

Um, and they, it's really interesting,
um, there's like a scent cone and

different dogs have different strategies.

Like some dogs will move to the wall
to catch the cone and then zero in.

On where the the treat is.

Other dogs are just like, you know,
all over the place looking super fast.

Um, my dog, Annie, my instructor,
said would be a great bomb detection

dog because she checks everything.

She is not gonna let that treat go under.

Unbound.

Anke: Oh, that's interesting.

Yeah.

They're so different, aren't they?

Yeah.

I mean, is it like what I would like,
what I find sort of most fascinating

about that nose work where they are like,
you know, we can't even perceive most

of the stuff they're dealing with you.

Jill: But again, you know, there is
some handler involvement in this sport

because you are watching their behavior.

So she hasn't transitioned to
the actual scent discs yet.

Um, but what I am learning
is when she's on scent.

You know, where she's not just like
doing a sweep and going, okay, it's

not here, it's not here, it's not here.

When she's zeroing in, she has certain
behavior patterns and she is one of

the dogs that will go to the wall.

You know, some handlers might think, oh,
it's, you know, it can't be over there.

Uh, and will try to direct the dog back.

No, you wanna let the dog.

Go to that wall, figure out where
it is, and they, and she comes

straight back and she finds it.

It's fascinating.

It's really fascinating.

Anke: Wow.

So they have their own little strategy
that nobody really teaches them, like

they kind of figure that out themselves.

Jill: Correct.

Anke: Wow.

Jill: Yeah.

Yeah.

Some dogs, um, Annie will hold her breath.

She huffs, like she's holding
her breath so that more air

is going through her nostrils.

There are other dogs that pant, pant,
pant, they get close to the sand

and then they close their mouth.

But she's like, she's driven.

She's really phenomenal at this sport.

Wow.

Anke: So how do you, how
did you decide forward?

Like, well, let's try nose work, you know?

Okay.

She couldn't do agility.

You know, was it just like, oh,
I've heard of it and it sounds

interesting, or, or was there

Jill: Well, she has a interesting,
um, dog training experience.

So, you know, of course we started out
in obedience just to get her foundation.

Um.

You know, skills, you know,
I do that with all my dogs.

Um, and then, you know, we did
do agility until I figured out.

So she was doing agility for, I don't
know, six months, maybe just foundation

until I found out something was wrong.

And then we, um, we went into,
um, barn hunt, which is where the

dogs find the rats and the tubes.

She was more interested in jumping
on top of the hay bales than looking

for the, I call her mountain goat
Annie, because she loves to jump up

on top of things and look around.

Anke: Oh, that's funny.

Mine does that.

My big one does that.

Jill: Yeah, so that was like,
eh, maybe this isn't her sport.

So then I took her to circus school.

To jump through hoops and, you know,
play bow and you know, sit up pretty,

sit pretty and all this other stuff.

And she was good at it, but I was
starting to get a little nervous because

of the jumping and also COVID hit.

And uh, so, um, so we stopped
doing that and then knows where

came about because of the book
I'm writing and this is her sport.

You know, I finally found her sport
that, you know, she excels at.

She loves it.

She's kind of a shy dog, but her tail
is up and wagon when we're doing,

doing those work, she loves it.

So, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's
good to experiment with your dog to

see what their particular passion is.

Anke: I think that's so important
to also recognize, you know.

At least in my case, you
know, these are like my fault.

The two of them I've got, the other two
have passed and I didn't like before.

I had more than one dog.

At the time.

At the time, I never realized how
different they were individually.

You know, there was almost like, oh,
dogs like this and dogs like that.

And what I did not realize that they
can grow up in the same household,

you know, and still be like.

Just like people vastly different.

Yeah.

You know, and to have different, different
likes and dislikes and talents, and so

to actually take the time also to sort
of look around and try different things

until you find the thing where go, yeah.

That's it.

Like, that's her favorite.

And, and we're good with that.

I just love that.

Yeah.

That's, that's fabulous.

Yeah.

Jill: One of the things that's so
coincidental and like a one in a million

thing that you could never pre predict.

So, uh, you know, I started
Annie in nose work, um, I think

it was like last November.

Um, and uh, my instructor said, oh,
um, she had looked me up and saw

that I wrote books about Doberman's.

And she goes, says, oh, well there's
gonna be a Doberman in this class.

And there's five people in this class.

And she goes, you probably know them.

And I said, no, I really just kind of
know Ruby and you know, a few other dogs.

You know, it's, it's a big area.

Yeah.

And lo and behold, it was Charles
Ruby's owner with his new dog.

I could, I was flabbergasted.

I, I mean, what are the odds?

Anke: That's incredible.

Jill: And he lives in, um, in a, a city
that's, uh, you know, it's probably a

good half hour, 45 minute drive for him.

So he's not even that
close to the location.

I mean, it was just like, you know,
the world wants me to write this

book about a do with a Doberman.

Anke: I think so.

And you've got your new model
then, so because he, he's

got another DOPA man, right.

Jill: Yeah.

Oh, that's funny.

Um, I don't know that I'm going to use
Bruce because he is a male and my, my,

um, my dog protagonist is a female.

Um, but, uh, you know, you never know.

Well.

Yeah.

And so, uh, so Bruce, um, it's now Ruby,
Doobie Doo, and Bruce too is his handle.

Um, because Ruby still, you know,
she was so beloved when she passed pe

People from all over the world, Europe
all over the place, sent condolences.

I did a story on, um, on Ruby
when she, uh, when she passed, um.

And, uh, she did on some doberman
platforms and just, I mean, the

response, she was just very special.

Bruce is great too, but there
was something about Ruby.

There really was.

Yeah,

Anke: there's like, there's some dogs,
like there's, there's an, there's

an in like, I don't know where, I
think the guy's on TikTok, Instagram,

whatever, but he had this big chunky
pity, you know, and, and I like I

cried wise out when that dog crossed
away suddenly, you know, it's like.

What is it?

You know, I, I don't even, I've not even
met the dog kind of thing, you know, but

it's like, you, you get so familiar and he
was such a, he, there was also this idea

that, you know, like real sort of advocacy
for the breed because, you know, there

was this tough looking guy with tattoos
and, and this big pitfall with his always

had his hat on the head, on his shoulder.

But like, there was so, like
both of them were so gentle.

Especially with each other, you know,
like, and you could really like it.

It shifts people's pers
perspective, you know?

And he passed away suddenly and
it was just like, oh my God.

You know, it really, it's, it's,
it's incredible how it hits you,

you know, even if it's like a dog
or somebody else's dog that you just

know from social media, you know?

Yeah.

But there are some dogs who just have
that charisma that really, you know,

catches and takes people along For sure.

Jill: My heart was
broken when Ruby passed.

She was, she was special.

She really

Anke: was.

Jill: Yeah.

Yeah.

Anke: Boy.

So where can people, you know, find
out more when the new book's coming

out and get the books you've got?

So obviously we're gonna pop that on
the show notes and, you know, and have

pictures of the book and all of that.

So, but, uh, let people know the
ones who already do this thing.

Jill: Uh, so you can reach
me on www.jillhedgecock.com.

Anke: Awesome.

Well, easy,

Jill: easy.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And on the site you can see all the, the
books that I've, um, I've written so.

Well,

Anke: then I hope that you are gonna
write many more in, in this series or

other series because I think it's, it's
just a beautiful combination of wrapping,

wrapping some valuable teaching into, into
a format that's fun and easy to digest.

Yeah.

So thank you so much for coming.

Absolutely.

Oh, thank you for having me.

Awesome.

Thank.

Thanks so much for listening.

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That's A N k E at Soul
touched by dogs.com.