Soul Touched by Dogs

Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs
Podcast, the show for dog lovers who

see dogs not as toys or tools, but
wise souls worth our respect and care.

I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host.

I talk to poor some humans, people who
do great work for dogs and their people.

So come and join us for
today's conversation.

Joanne: Hello

Anke: and welcome, Jo.

I'm very happy to have you here.

Joanne: Oh, thank you, Anke.

I'm really, really happy to be here.

Anke: Wonderful.

So let's start how we always start.

Share with people where in this
lovely world you are, and so

what's your business with dogs?

Joanne: I am in, I'm very
fortunate, I'm in the beautiful,

in beautiful Noosa, which is in
Queensland, which is in Australia.

So we're in our spring season right now.

It's lovely.

I've been to Noosa, I'm like

Anke: jealous.

Joanne: It's, it's a big destination,
tourist destination spot.

So at the moment, it's
school holidays in Australia.

So we're pretty busy here at the moment.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And my business is called
Paw and Order Noosa.

Um, I love that show.

And, um, yeah, so I started
about four years ago.

Actually, it started during COVID.

There was a need for people
to do online dog training.

Oh, so

Anke: it's

Joanne: a

Anke: COVID puppy.

Yeah, it is

Joanne: a

Anke: COVID puppy.

It's a COVID baby.

Yes.

Okay, so now tell us about, you specialize
in, in something that I think a lot

of people on my list might have heard
about because you know, it's sort of

come up a little bit, but probably
don't know an awful lot about it.

Joanne: Yeah, yep, that's right.

I specialize in ACE being Animal
Centred Education, free work.

That is the brainchild of
the amazing Sarah Fisher.

Um, over in Bath in the UK, she's
got this beautiful farm called

Chilli Farm and um, I was fortunate
enough to go there earlier this year.

It was a huge trip, but it was wonderful.

So I am studying with Sarah.

I'm, um, doing her courses.

So I went there for one of the
practical modules, practical

components of one of my modules.

And that was a life changing experience.

It was just fantastic.

You can learn from books.

You can learn from videos.

But when you're actually there, It's
something different and it is magical.

And just inspired me even
more to keep following this.

Um, speaking to Sarah and there is
actually no one else in Australia

who, um, practices or is authorized
to use the Animal Centred name.

And I've been, I'm just blessed that
Sarah has given me her authorization to go

ahead, fly the ace flag here in Australia.

So, um, Ace Free Work is all my
sessions that I do with clients

is all about Ace Free Work.

Anke: Okay, do you want to unpack
a little bit of what that means?

Joanne: Yeah, sure.

So free work is, um, so first of
all, free work was developed by

Sarah a couple of decades ago.

She was working with the
dogs at Battersea Dogs Home.

It's a rescue there.

And she realized a lot of
the dogs had sensory issues.

Uh, like to be touched, things like that.

Um, and Sarah has a background in human,
um, massage anatomy and physiology.

And she, um, also took the teachings
of, uh, I think her name is some pet.

Oh, you know what?

You can cut that out, but
I can find out who that is.

Um, who does sensory
education with children.

So she sort of looked at that model and
thought, why can't we use that with dogs?

So she started putting different surfaces
underfoot for these dogs who had trouble,

had struggled, um, and then when the
dogs realized there was nothing to fear

from different textures underfoot, they
were more accepting of human touch.

Anke: So it's really about sort of
bringing that stress level down, right?

It is,

Joanne: yep.

And free work, so it's,
it's, we set up free work.

So free work is, um, it's a low level
activity, um, exercise, I should say, and

it works on eight senses that the dog has.

We definitely work with the nervous
system, trying to get the dog into

kind of the parasympathetic nervous
system where they can just relax.

Well, you know, relax and
digest is what that's for.

So there is, we do put
food in the station.

So stations are things like, you
know, licky mats, snuffle mats.

We, um, we put them on different heights,
depending on the dog, angle the station's

different surfaces on the floor.

And everything's tailored is
bespoke for that particular dog.

And we, within that free work,
the dog is got, we try not to

have any equipment on the dog.

I call it naked.

So we have naked dogs.

And, um, you're imagining, oh, there's
a nudist colony in my house, but no.

Um, so they get, go around.

So sometimes the
equipment can, um, hamper.

their movement, like can
hinder the way they move.

And it's also, FreeWorks is also a
good way to introduce equipment to

dogs that may be a little bit worried
about collars, harnesses, things like

that, because the dogs, um, calmer.

And, um, we, and it's really good
for introducing novel items as well.

Anke: So you put it just in there.

So bottom line, like, can I just kind
of sort of summarize with the area that

is kind of closed off some way, so the
dog can't just run off sort of thing.

That's right.

Yeah.

Stuff in it, right?

So different, you know, kind of,
um, cause I've seen videos, right.

And the first one, you know, and so, and
then the dogs kind of sort of let loose

in there and can do their own thing.

They can just tinker
around at their own pace.

pace and like they just explore what
they feel drawn to, but there's just

no interaction, we don't talk to them,
like there's nothing, like they're just

literally sort of on their own, just
like your job is to observe, right?

Joanne: Yeah, that's part of our job, um,
so yes, you're right, we do put things

down, um, we, a big part of Ace Free
Work is observation, so we met, and so

within Free Work, the dog will, um, So
backing that up, sorry, a little bit.

Yes, the dog's free to explore,
um, dogs being scavengers and,

um, they love to, um, seek dogs.

It's a natural thing for dogs to seek.

It triggers a seeking in the
dog, so it allows them to feel

safe because they're being dogs.

You know, doing dog behavior
makes dogs feel safe.

Dogs really can't achieve
anything until they feel safe.

So it makes them feel safe.

It gives them a choice.

They get a choice, you know, and that
is, really makes dogs feel safe to

have some control and some choice.

So, they go around and they
do, they use all their senses.

They use their noses, they
use, you know, um, which is

the most important, obviously.

There's, you know, touch, there's every
sense that, and we tailor that with the

stations that we actually put in there.

Um, and it has lots of applications.

But yeah, the dog goes in, we, we watch.

We watch how the dog is moving,
um, I usually video every session.

So afterwards I can, like today I was
working at the local RSPCA rescue.

I try to do that once a week and
just help out some of the dogs there.

Um, video the session, take it
home, put it on slow motion.

I can really get a good
look at the dog then.

Um, and just see if there's
any inconsistencies, maybe

structurally balanced.

You can see it a lot better when the dog's
moving, you know, more slowly and calmly.

Then you can And we do encourage the,
what we do, or probably the caregiver

more than us, to go in and work with
the dog, to engage with the dog.

Anke: Yeah.

So what do you, like,

okay, let me just back
up one question I have.

Yes.

But I've seen a video with Sarah, like
doing this and I'm like, oh, I would

never see all the stuff she sees.

So, if I don't have a background,
you know, in that, like, body

work, you know, do I have a chance?

Yes.

Joanne: It's, yeah.

Well, it's, Sarah does seem to have,
um, an innate, natural, organic gift of

making these observations and her thought
processes too about how dogs function is,

is much more developed than most of us.

That's the whole point though, of us going
through her courses, it's, it's learning.

So, that is teachable though.

Oh yes, definitely.

Every course, like I've just finished
yesterday, the um, practical component.

Yeah, thank you.

Of module three.

Part of that is I film my dog.

Doing free work.

We go within a group.

We do a Zoom.

I mean, I'd like to be at Tilly Farm,
but I can't do it for every module.

We do a Zoom and we literally
put that on slow motion and we go

through and we make observations.

So, you know, obviously my observation
skills aren't nearly as good as Sarah's

or my tutor in my course, but seeing what
they're talking about and like, Oh, right.

I see what you're saying.

Definitely helps to, to educate
us on what we're saying.

And

Anke: even, even like the, the dog
owners say, if I do that with my dogs.

Without taking the cause,
there's still something like

that will be still helpful to me.

Oh, for sure.

Joanne: Yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely.

Engaging all those, um, senses and all
those, yeah, it's just great for your dog.

And just giving your dog the
chance to reset, pretty much.

Yeah.

And giving them choice.

That's what dogs need is choice.

Yeah.

Anke: Yeah.

So you mentioned, okay, observation
is one part, but you can also

go in and work with them.

So what does that mean?

What do you do with them?

And what's, like, what's the point,
like, what are you achieving there?

Joanne: Yeah, exactly.

So as a dog, I don't like to
call myself a dog trainer.

I like to call myself a dog educator now,
because, um, what I do is, encourage the

caregivers, the owners of the dogs, to
do this within the free work setting.

So I, I enable them to teach
their dogs life skills, things

like recall, which we know is so
important for dogs to come back.

And I mean, the basis of a good
recall is for your dog to trust you

and you to trust your dog and that
your relationship's really good.

And your dog wants to come back to you.

So we start that by doing, um, games
with the dog within free work, things

like Chirag Patel's counting game.

And his bucket game, things
like that we will use.

So basically it's your dog coming, you
go around the station, you can do the

counting game where you one, you know,
and, and the dog's like, Oh, okay.

Every time she does that, she puts a treat
in, but the dog is always free to opt out.

That's the whole point of free work.

The dog is free to opt out.

And we encourage them to do that
because by realizing they have a choice.

they can then start to self
regulate and make better choices.

I love that.

I

Anke: love

Joanne: that.

Yeah.

It's not this like,

Anke: you know, sitzplatz
kind of thing, you know?

No.

So basically you go in there with
the dog and then do these games.

So, so they, but they basically with you.

But if they, I think it's also great.

I mean, them having a choice, I think
it's, it's so helpful in so many levels,

but I think it teaches us also where,
where they're limited, you know, when

they get bored, you know, throwing balls
with my dogs when after like the 50th

time they go like, Oh, for God's sake,

catch that on Zuno when
they can walk away, right.

Joanne: Yeah, and I, that's actually
part of, one of my favorite parts

of free work is watching the
different dogs do different things

and we call them finishing cues.

They will, they will do things to
show you that they're finished now.

We have also found that free work
usually takes around 15 to 17 minutes.

That's about the limit.

Which gets you thinking, what else do
dogs only need to do 15 to 17 minutes?

So yeah, it's really interesting.

And if we then look at the model
of the street dogs or free living

dogs, there's a lot of that
that correlates to them as well.

So yeah, within, within free work we
can, um, With the finishing cues, like

some dogs, it's a little bit tricky to
work out whether they're done or not.

My dog will tend to go around for
her, she's textbook 15 to 18 minutes.

She'll look at me, I'm like, oh, you
might be finished, she'll have a drink.

She will look outside the door and she'll
come back and lie down in front of me.

Like, I'm done.

Other dogs will go and Counter surf.

They'll jump up on the
bench and have a look.

Why?

There's food up there, yes, but there's
food in the, in the free work as well.

Oh, that's right.

Yeah, it is quite amazing.

So do you have

Anke: like a station, uh, kind of
set up that's permanently kind of

set up that you change around a bit
or how would that normally work?

Or do people, and at what point,
like what do I, what can I do at

home and what do I come to you for?

Joanne: Yeah, so

it's probably good to come to me
first, um, to learn What, what

stations your dog will benefit from.

And also for me to do some, so if
you're coming to me because your dog's

reactive or your dog's got a particular
behavior that you'd like looked at,

um, because something like reactivity.

So, 82 percent of dogs who display
reactive behavior are in chronic pain.

So that's usually, you know, reason
for, you know, different behaviors.

So I can then, they come to me, I
observe the dog, or you can do it online.

I can do it online.

Um, observe your dog and
say, yeah, yeah, definitely.

Um, and observe the dog and say,
it may be worth a veterinary visit.

Or maybe just, you know, go see the
chiropractor or physio, because I

think I'm seeing something here.

That's the most important
thing to do first.

And then I will work with you to,
obviously, depending on what the

professional, the vet has said,
um, I'll work with you then to

set up stations that are going to
make your dog more comfortable.

And if it's a physio, like my dog
needs physios, and the, and the

vet suggested doing cavaletties and
sit to stands on a raised platform,

we do that within free work.

So again, she's free to
opt out if she'd like to.

And, um, yeah, it's great.

She does it within there.

And yeah, so then, um,
I would say that to you.

So these are the kind of stations, but
don't have always the same stations.

Move them around.

You know, it's like any kind of physio.

You need to be moving those
muscles up and down and around,

not just one static station.

And, um, I myself, I'm very fortunate.

I have a room that I just have
free work set up in all the time.

It doesn't need to be expensive.

People can find things
probably in their home to use.

Um, you know, dollar shops or, um, you
know, like opportunity shops or something

like that will have things that you need.

Always important though to
have non slippery floors.

Anke: Yes.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Yeah.

Joanne: And we offer things
at different heights.

Like, sorry, I was going to say,
you put water bowls, two water

bowls in there, different heights.

So you know which one your dog prefers.

Anke: Oh, I think that's also
like, which food do they like, you

know, what do they actually go for?

Right.

I think that's so interesting.

Joanne: That's right.

So we encourage people to put
different flavors, textures,

sizes of food in there for them.

Obviously we recommend, you know,
take a certain amount of your dog's

daily diet out because you don't
want them to put on weight doing it.

Um, but yeah, and licky surfaces,
you, we have licky surfaces.

You can use all different things on that.

You can use anything, peanut butter, oils,
um, cheese, not too much of that, but

you know, anything that your dog likes.

Yeah, for sure.

And we include crunchy items as
well to chew on because some dogs.

Well, all dogs find chewing obviously
a de stressor, but some dogs don't

feel that they can carry on in
the session until they've chewed.

Some dogs will wait till the end
of the session and then chew.

Some dogs do it in the middle.

Yeah.

Sarah tells the story of one dog
that wasn't able to cope at all,

would just stand there watching
everyone until they'd stopped chewing.

gave it tooth and the dog
would chew and then just go

and engage with the free work.

Anke: That's incredible.

So you have to literally listen to
your dog, like kind of, even at the

start, figure out like, what is it that
makes this interesting and fun for you?

And that's also a really good,

Joanne: that's right.

Yes, you do it with them, which
is strengthening your bond and

your relationship with your dog.

And it's creating also a lot of
trust between the both of you.

Cause the dog sees you enabling it.

Yeah, only one dog at a time.

Anke: You don't put two dogs in
there, it's like my two big ones

would kind of run around there.

Joanne: Yeah, no, just, just one
at a time for different reasons.

I mean, one of them is like, it
can be, if you've got a multi dog

household, that can be your special
time with that particular dog.

And that's another
interesting thing, thing too.

What we can do in free work is
introduce dogs, um, to each other.

Um, so what we do is we will
put, um, two se separate, free

works up and, and different areas
so they cannot see each other.

They both interact and then you
swap them around without meeting

each other, swap them around.

They, they engage in each
other's free work settings.

They get the smell.

Yeah.

And then you'll see, you'll be able
to slowly move them closer together.

You may get dogs that can get on,
or you may never, I mean some dogs

may never want to get on, I mean
that's just what happens, but a good

amount of the time the dogs will,
yeah, be fine with each other then.

Anke: That's so cool.

I think there's a whole
world to discover here.

So where can people go and find
out more about it and get in

touch with you and all of that?

Joanne: Yeah, so I, my website will
tell you a lot about what I do.

Um, that's, www.

coordinutha.

com.

au You can see me on all the socials.

Facebook, Instagram, YouTube.

I have a YouTube channel.

You'll see a lot of my videos on there.

Warts and all.

That sometimes things don't go smoothly.

And that's great too.

Because we learn from that.

We definitely learn from that.

Um, yeah, so they can, they can
call me, they can text me, they,

whatever, yeah, happy to, can do
online sessions for people as well.

In the same way, you know, I would,
they just need to do videos and

Zooms, things like that with me.

Anke: Yeah.

Joanne: I mean, I guess most people

Anke: probably want to come to
Noosa, but it's not always that easy.

Joanne: Yes.

Yeah, that's right.

Um.

It's getting much more popular.

Like free work is becoming
much more popular.

People are seeing the benefits, especially
like my speciality is reactive dogs.

Um, and I just love seeing the magic
that free work brings to reactive dogs.

It's, um, I've had people
say, what did you do?

It's like, it's free work magic.

I love it.

Free

Anke: work magic.

I love it.

So all the links, if you're
listening, watching, they're going

to be, you know, below in the show
notes, in the, in the description.

If you're on the newsletter, obviously
it's just right above and below.

So enjoy.

Go check it out.

It's magnificent.

It's just like, it's just
like, Yeah, I don't know.

It's just like, I've just seen glimpses
of it and I'm like really curious.

So thank you so much for coming
and unpacking that a little bit so

people really understand what this
is all about and the power it has.

So it has.

Joanne: Thank you so much for
giving me that opportunity, Anke.

That's amazing.

Thank you.

Thank

Anke: you.

Joanne: It's amazing.

Amazing.

Thanks so much for listening.

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And if you know a pawsome human
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Email me at Anke.

That's A N k E at Soul
touched by dogs.com.