Soul Touched by Dogs

Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs
Podcast, the show for dog lovers who

see dogs not as toys or tools, but
wise souls worth our respect and care.

I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host.

I talk to poor some humans, people who
do great work for dogs and their people.

So come and join us for
today's conversation.

Anke: Hello and welcome, John.

I'm delighted to have you here.

Jon: Hello there.

Nice to, uh, nice to be here.

Anke: Fabulous.

So before we talk about dogs,
let's talk about Jon for a second.

Uh, give us a two minute bird's
eye overview, where you're based.

You know, what's the day job
if you have one and, uh, you

know, give us a little bit of

Jon: an idea of who you are.

Uh, yeah, I'm originally
from the UK, uh, England.

I started working with dogs 2005.

Uh, I had my first trip to animal
welfare experience in Zambia

and Southern Africa in 2011.

That's when I really felt like I'd found
my niche, my calling, because it was

about thinking on your feet, working with
people just as much as working with dogs.

Thank you.

I'm trying to do a community service
and work on cultural change and,

um, and helping people who really
had a lovely idea about what they

want to do, but they felt helpless.

They felt that no one was listening to
them and, and just being able to be there

and, uh, give them a little bit of help.

Um, I really, really enjoyed it and
I found it played to my strengths.

Um, so I did a couple more.

A bits and pieces on that front, uh,
but and I moved full time to Greece,

uh, 2016 to the island of Rhodes
where I found a Whilst they had one

foot in the kind of new world, they
also had a foot in the old world in

the sense of not really understanding
about the needs of domestic animals.

And I wanted to, long story short, I
wanted to see what I could do about

educating the next generation of pet
parents, dog guardians, whatever.

And so I wrote a little book, which, uh,
by some serendipity, uh, got its sway

into the Greek, uh, national curriculum.

And I've kind of come up with an idea
to, to partner the idea of animal, uh,

welfare with soft skills for children,
ideas of, uh, commitment and communication

and, uh, empathy and things like that.

And, um, So yeah, that's where I am
right at the moment, and I'm working

with a couple of organisations to
try and see if we can make this, um,

project, uh, into an international one.

So for countries that are really trying
their best but are struggling to raise

awareness, um, I'm hoping that we
can use this as a template to, uh, to

bring to other countries and cultures.

Ooh, I love this.

Oh,

Anke: well, I hope you have

Jon: Spain on the list.

Well, listen, I'm, I'm, um, the idea
is, like, so the book is written,

the concept's there, the lesson plan
is created, the, uh, the format that

one needs in any country, which is
to train volunteers, uh, to give them

a, almost like a free mini course in
behaviour and dog training and working

with kids, um, so they can present
the, uh, the project in their own way.

with the context of their own
culture and their own way.

So there's no one way to do
things, because every country has

its own niche and its own little
things they need to overcome.

So it's about saying, look, here's just,
here's a, here's a toolkit, like pick

the tools you need for the job and we
will help you with whatever you need.

So if someone in Spain was to get
in contact with me and say, can

you rewrite this for the Spanish,
uh, people or whatever, then

that would be really easy to do.

It would just be a question of
translation, talking to people on

the ground, seeing what they feel
that they need more of, and then

tweaking the lesson plan to that.

That's so cool.

Anke: Um, so now I'm, I'm curious because
like, I kind of just can't tell you how

much I love this because I've always
said like the only way like looking

at shelters and you know, where like,
where there seems to be the most of

the focus in, in, in the space of how
can we kind of make dog's life better.

It's always like, oh, shelters.

It's like, that's just a band aid.

That's like the only way to really,
uh, achieve change is like to kind

of teach the upcoming generation
something different because if they

keep being taught by their parents, you
know, nothing's ever going to change.

So what did you find or
like, what's your experience?

Like, cause if I'm now thinking
like, Oh my God, I would love to.

go into schools, you know, with my dog
or without the dog, like, you know, but

basically to how did you go about that?

Like, you know, if I go to a
school, they'll go, oh, well,

that's not in the budget.

Or like, you know, like, how did you
even get your foot in the door there?

Jon: Yeah, well, I think, uh, I kind
of, I was stumbled around in the dark as

well, like, uh, but I found, obviously,
like, whatever you believe in, I found,

like, the universe or whatever was,
seemed to be opening doors for me along

the way, and, and it was, it's just
about meeting the right kind of people

that believe in what you're doing.

So if I was to create the template,
let's say, let's say for argument's

sake you wanted to do this, I would
say, okay, let's first of all,

let's create a really nice package.

So like a nice lesson plan with
videos and all this kind of stuff.

And then we get a nice book and then
we say this is what they're doing in

Greece and we get some references and
this is the difference it's making.

Then you go to a Municipal, a municipality
or whatever, and you say, look, this

is what's happening in Greece, uh,
we would like to, uh, make this an

initiative for schools in Spain.

And often, it's very difficult for people
when you, when you're that prepared to

go, actually, no, I don't want that,
that's rubbish, because obviously

there's nothing bad or negative about it.

If you go into a situation where
you're kind of holding all the cards,

you've got an answer for everything
they're going to throw at you.

Um, because the, the project
that I've created is, it's, it

integrates shelters with schools.

It's about combining the two things.

They're not mutually exclusive.

Uh, you're trying to create an image
in people's heads that the shelter

is not just this abstract term.

It's not just this thing on the, on
a hill over there, which is where

all these barking dogs are kept.

It's full of real animals that need
homes, and when these kids, uh, are

going to get asked by their parents in
the future, where should we get a dog

from, even if it's just a 10 percent
shift towards the shelter, it's going

to start people talking about it.

You bring dogs into the class because
you create a narrative that's real,

you make them tangible, they're
real animals with real stories.

You bring shelter volunteers
in who tell their story.

Kids love stories.

People love stories.

You know, then you say, okay, just
imagine if little Pedro the dog here

had a perfect home, what would you do?

Draw us a picture.

Write us a story about what would you do
if you could give Pedro a perfect home.

Um, they put stories on the wall and this
creates a change in the way people think.

So you would start by, uh, just
saying, like, do we have permission?

Like, so I would be
happy to go to any place.

Because I've been trained, and I have
my dog, and I know that my dog is bomb

proof, and I can go into a school.

Um, and you, and you just start off
by saying, what could go wrong here?

What have you got to lose?

We've got everything to gain.

And do you know what?

If you want to play to the whole ego
thing, remember a lot of these people in

municipals, politicians, and so forth,
you know, I don't need to say anything

really about these kind of people,
why they go into this kind of work.

It's going to make you look good,
like you're going to look like

someone who's trying something new.

It's a pioneering idea.

Are you brave enough to do it?

You know, these kind of things.

And people are going to
say, nothing to lose.

The worst thing they could say
is, okay, you can't bring the

dog in for health and safety.

You say, okay, no problem, we'll,
we'll, we'll take it to a place

where there's a fence in between.

So the dogs can see the kids
and the kids can see the dogs,

but there's no interaction.

There's always a way around things.

People are trying to always put
obstacles in a way just for,

just for the sake of doing it.

And as long as you're prepared
for all these things, and so it

doesn't matter what they throw at
you, you're always going to win.

I feel like once you've been into one
school and you see the effect it's

had on the kids and the teachers.

You put that out on social media, you
know, you've got people taking notice

and that's what I did here in Rhodes
and I've kind of did it on my own at

the beginning and fortunately after
a few times of getting recognized

by associations and so forth, I've
started to get some backing for it.

I

Anke: love that.

And I think that is so true because
I think the, being prepared, I

think that's the piece, you know,
because you can go with an idea

and it's like, yeah, whatever.

Right.

So it's kind of, it's nothing tangible.

But if you rock up there with books and
like everything sort of lined out and.

Look, this is what this
is done over there.

Yeah, I can, I can, I can totally

Jon: see that.

Yeah, I've, I've, I've got
my foot in the door now.

And there's no way you've
done the groundwork.

So I think you've got lucky.

I got lucky.

I'm not going to take all the credit
because I got very lucky and it

was serendipity and I was in the
right place at the right time.

And, but the point is The foot is in
the door now and it's not coming out.

Yeah, I mean, that's the thing.

See,

Anke: I could like, if I'm sort
of, if we just kind of keep playing

with the scenario, I can now ride on

Jon: what you've done.

Totally, everyone can, you know,
everyone, everyone can, can jump on it.

And I want, I want that because,
you know, all this is, is a spark

and I want it to be ignited.

Obviously, like, It's a work in progress.

So it's, it's not perfect.

It's not finished.

Uh, there are, there are thousands of
people that are better qualified, uh,

than me in each of these specific areas.

I'm a kind of a jack of
all trades in this area.

And, uh, you know, if someone comes
up to me, who's a qualified, uh, you

know, psychotherapist with children that
specialize in soft skills, let's say,

for example, and they, and they come
and tell me, what do you treat this?

What do you try that?

I'm going to, I'm going to
go, yeah, all right, let's do,

let's do it because I'm open to.

I'm not precious about this.

This is not about me.

This is about, uh, something much bigger.

And, um, so I'm, I'm asking anyone
who watches this podcast, who

thinks, well, that's inspiring.

And maybe I could do something in my
country or whatever, just get in contact

with me and let's make it happen.

Like, let's just, Why not?

Let's just do it.

Let's do it.

That's, that's

Anke: incredible.

So, so do, like, if you go to the,
you know, municipality, like, do they

actually kind of, once they convince,
do they actually pay for this?

Or does that, so

Jon: nobody pays for it?

I've not received a penny for my work.

And when I, when I first got the book
into the municipality, I had to sign a

disclaimer kind of contract with them
saying that I wasn't allowed to make

any money out of any of the books.

So I

Uh, I play, uh, I'm a
professional musician as well.

I play gigs at night like a,
like a teenager, and I, and

I do behavioral training.

I've just done a behavioral training
job in the town, and that keeps my

head above water, but, um, you know,
I'm looking for, uh, philanthropic

investments so I can, I can take
this to the next level, because the

template and the idea was already there.

I would just need a very, very, uh,
short amount of time to be doing

it, a very small amount of money,
or, or just a little bit of...

Just people taking notice of what
I'm doing on radio or television

or documentaries, saying like,
this is something, this is what

you can do if you've got an idea
and you make, and you run with it.

And if I could do this even three quarters
time, like not, not full time, I could do

10 times more than I'm already doing just
off working part time off my own ideas.

That's it.

I'm just kind

Anke: of like, when we get off the
recording, um, I have an introduction

to make for you because I know
somebody who I've had on the podcast

years ago, and he is basically
in the business of philanthropy.

Like he's basically saying, look, any
money I make with my online I donate

to causes and his favorite cause is,
is one that, he's in the States, is

one that connect, that brings together,
uh, military vets and shelter,

like soldier, shelter to soldier.

So he brings those together to
kind of reduce the suicide rate.

That's his kind of, that's where he...

So he's the connection

Jon: for that.

Yeah.

I mean, do you know what that,
well, that, that, that's just

abstract blue sky thinking.

It's like, okay, there's, there's
two things here that, that both

need help and they can help
each other and everyone can win.

Like literally no one loses.

And the problem is we've been raised in a
culture and a society like capitalism and

consumerism that we think that in order
for someone to win, someone has to lose.

And it's just not true.

There's like so many examples in
life where everyone can win, but

because we've been raised Raised
and programmed to think in that way.

People are often thinking, Oh, well,
you know, well, if he's going to

benefit, then he must have an agenda.

And it's just, it's just nonsense.

And if you work in animal welfare
and you work with people who work

in the public sector, nurses, these
people are like angels and they're

getting paid virtually nothing, you
know, and there's no agenda there.

They're just doing something
that they want to do.

And, uh, and I think that we
need to get rid of that old,

this is kind of a metaphor for.

That kind of old way of thinking and
we need to, uh, we need to, it's,

the guy you're talking about sounds
exactly, uh, like he's on a parallel

course with me, you know, he's just
taking two ideas and he's saying

let's, let's solve these problems.

Obviously the better thing to do would
be to not have situations where We

have traumatized soldiers in the first
place, but, you know, he's got to be

realistic at the same time as well.

Yeah,

Anke: absolutely.

The reason I thought of him was
because, you know, the philanthropy,

like that's his, like, you know,
he has an interesting story.

I'll tell you about it, but
yeah, basically he's got

a love for dogs as well.

So this, this is the charity that he
chooses to support with his own stuff.

And, you know, he's, he's just the contact
to and see what, you know, where it goes.

Jon: Because I've got quite a wide, uh,
uh, web of, uh, contacts in the animal

welfare world as well, um, uh, you know,
I've kind of already, the framework's

already kind of there and, and the,
the concept is already there as well.

So it really, for something this massive
to take off, it really doesn't need a lot.

It just needs a really
small amount of planning.

I've already written a proposal
with, uh, with a lady who used to

be, she was, I think she was, Third
highest up in the British Army at

one point, and now she raises money
for, uh, for soldiers as well.

And she helped me, bless her,
she's my sister's neighbor!

And she helped me, uh, put together
the proposal that I was going

to use for, uh, Philanthropy.

So I'll send that to your,
your, uh, WhatsApp after this,

and you could pass it on.

Anke: Oh, that's awesome.

Well, thank you so much.

This is so inspiring because I'm
just like, yeah, I've been, you

know, it's one of those things.

It's like, oh, I've kind of thought
of that, but it was kind of too big

a project or didn't even know where
to start, you know, but just because,

oh, you've already done all that.

Like, I'm so keen on seeing what, you

Jon: know, yeah, what can I talk to you
and your And you're putting things my

way and, you know, that, I mean, if this
thing blows off, then you're just as

important a cog in the, in the, in the
thing as I am, you know, it's, it's not

about, uh, individuals, it's about the
big, and if we can all, uh, if we can all

use our time on this planet, uh, Doing
inspiring things and changing things

and you know, then there isn't a better
way to to to exist because it's a lot

of things in life are out of our hands.

And, and it's very, uh, it's very
difficult sometimes to, to, to be, uh,

to be alive and to see the things going
around and you have no control over.

So when you can have a, a slight
amount of a grip on something

and try and improve things and.

Know, it's, it's, it's,
it makes life worthwhile.

I don't wanna go too deep
down that rabbit hole, but

Anke: No, but it's true though.

It's true.

So, so, you know, well, yes, I agree.

It's not personal.

And if somebody wants to
connect with you, where do we

Jon: send them?

Uh, I've got a website, uh,
positive pet academy.com.

Uh, and I've also got a course,
uh, which is aimed for, uh, uh.

Guardians that take a dog on from
a shelter and just want to build

a, a strong rapport with them.

It's quite abstract, it's quite yogi,
it's a bit woo woo, it's all about peace

and love and connection and rapport.

Not about, it's not about
domination and, um, subjugation.

Yeah, it's all about, um, it's
all about mindset, like get your

mindset in the right, in the
right place before you even start.

And then you'll find
everything so much easier.

Get, make sure that you've got your
space created to set yourself up

for success is the old, like, cheesy
American way of putting it, but.

You know, set yourself up so you don't
have to keep chasing your tail for one of

the bad pun, um, and, uh, and incorporate,
uh, the dog into your lifestyle so you

become a team, like you're, you're, you're
together and you're working together.

It's not, it's not about status and
stature, it's about, uh, being a team.

So that's, uh, Positive Academy.

And then you can find me at John
Garstang on Facebook, that's my

personal Facebook, you can contact
me through there, no problem.

Um, and Positive Pet Project on Instagram,
that's where you can see the stories of

the trips I've done to Germany with the
dog recently, all that kind of jazz.

Awesome.

And yeah.

I'll

Anke: put all the links are going to be
like below here if you're listening to the

podcast in the show notes so it's going to
be super easy to to find you and I can't

wait to see what the next step is where
you're taking this so thank you so much

for coming this is absolutely awesome.

Jon: Thanks so much, my pleasure.

Thanks so much for listening.

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And if you know a pawsome human
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I'd love an introduction.

Email me at Anke.

That's A N k E at Soul
touched by dogs.com.