Soul Touched by Dogs

Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs
Podcast, the show for dog lovers who

see dogs not as toys or tools, but
wise souls worth our respect and care.

I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host.

I talk to poor some humans, people who
do great work for dogs and their people.

So come and join us for
today's conversation.

Anke: Hello and welcome Krista.

I'm super excited to have you here.

Thank you so much for having me.

Can't wait to, to dive in.

So before we go, before we get into
the topic, let people know where

in this lovely world are you and
so what's your business with dogs?

Krista: Yes, absolutely.

Um, I am in the United States.

I'm in the Atlanta, Georgia area, and my
business is the Unleashed Project where

really it's, it was born out of being
passionate about our four legged family

members and wanting to help as many
animals as possible, healthy, adoptable

animals, escape the fate that so many,
you know, are now faced with and, um,

euthanasia and, and, um, The United
States and then marrying that with my

love of strategy and systems and really
follow through and sales and all those

pieces because I realized in my volunteer
work that there's huge opportunities.

for bringing that kind of thinking
into the animal welfare space.

And so the Unleashed project is really
based on the idea that we want to

bring strategic thinking and creative
problem solving and a whole heck of a

lot of compassion to this, this work
that we have, which is really about.

Especially in the United States,
transforming the entire industry and,

and doing it in a way that we are, I
have all kinds of notes and flip charts

behind me of, you know, how to solve the,
the overpopulation challenge we face.

But really the, the core note that I
have on my dry race board is really

focusing on attacking the problem, not the
person or the group, because that seems

to be so just, everybody's passionate.

And so it can be very much, my
idea is right, your idea is wrong.

And there's just, I see
lots of opportunities.

Anke: Yeah, I love that.

I love that.

And you know, I like, you know, the kind
of what gets me super excited immediately

is this, how can we bring our skills
experience and, and, and merge it with the

course that we're really passionate about.

So I love how you've done that
because obviously we know each

other from a business context.

So this is like, wow, this is
interesting that, you know, how you

bring this into this, into this world.

So if you say, talk about like,
let's, let's attack the problem,

not the people or the group.

So how would you, you know, through the
lens of the volunteer work you're doing,

like, what do you see as the problem?

How would you explain

Krista: that?

Yeah, well, and that's why I have, and
again, and I'll show you sometime too,

the, the flip charts of kind of really
trying to solve what is this core problem

that, that we're facing, you know, and I
believe part of it, and again, speaking

for what I'm experiencing in the United
States, in the South too, where a lot

of times people are, um, and I say this
being a person that lives in the South,

just slower to adjust to different
ways of thinking, you know, and so in

the South, a lot of times, you know,
people look at animals as property.

Which is really a huge challenge.

And, um, then, you know, it's, they
don't prioritize spay or neuter.

And it's kind of, does the
government need to mandate it?

And then, you know, I've done some work
even with the commissioners here locally.

And then I've learned so much about
the law side of it and all the

lobbyists and influences there,
and, but I like to hunt and I mean,

just lots of complications, but then
it's also the idea of you can only.

A law is only as good as you're
able to enforce it, you know, and

so there's backyard breeders or,
you know, all the different things

so it's, I don't know that I could
say the exact problem, you know, I

used to think it was overpopulation
of animals and shelters, but there's

human activities or actions that are
leading to that, you know, and so.

Even in, in Georgia, where I live too,
there's a lot of apartments and rental

homes or different things that if you
rent, a lot of times there are certain

dogs you're not allowed to have, or
maybe you're not allowed any dog.

So then people are forced
to give up their animals.

And we see that in the
volunteer work I do too.

So it's, it's a multifaceted.

Anke: Yeah.

I mean, it's not an easy one, right?

Because I'm wondering, You know, the,
the overpopulation, it, it kind of

doesn't sound right to me, right?

It's almost like I wouldn't, and that's
the thing, I don't know the numbers.

That's just like sort of the impression.

And because it's very similar here
in that sense of like, yeah, dogs

are tools or toys for the kids.

And, you know, and if they no longer
serve us, then, you know, so there's

a lot of that attitude, which has
driven me to create all that by dogs,

because they've got to kind of change
the narrative somehow, you know, but it

doesn't feel to me as if they're like,
It's not like a plague that there's

all of a sudden too many cats and dogs.

It's almost like if you look at the
number of households and the number of

people, you know, and the number of dogs.

So I don't think this necessarily would
have to be a problem if, you know, almost

like If the attitude towards animals
and our responsibility towards them was

different, if, as you say, you know,
like, if it wasn't made so difficult

to have a dog in a rental apartment
or in this or that kind of stuff.

So it's almost like, It's not really that
there's too many dogs, it's almost there's

not enough households who are willing
and able to take care of one, you know?

Krista: And that, I think you hit the
nail on the head, you know, and I know

you and I both like systems and processes.

So I came up with like a social
change framework, um, of even looking

at like, if I could, you know, go
in and do it, what would we change?

And it really is influencing
behaviors and how we.

Look at animals because, you know,
I, I can tell you wholeheartedly, we

would probably move across the country.

At least I know I would, I might have
to drag my husband a little bit, but if

something needed to happen for the dog,
I mean, it's that, you know, I mean, our

dogs are very much part of our family
and I know not everybody is, is to that

extreme, but I would, I prioritize that.

And that's, you know, it's,
it's a lifelong commitment

in the way that I look at it.

It's not just.

Oh, you know, for Christmas
or that kind of thing.

But it's, it really gets back to, I
believe, shifting people's belief and

responsibility, which is a whole paradigm
of, of how, you know, to shift the whole

way people are thinking about animals.

If, if we look at it at that small
level or that big level, and then.

You know, the volunteer work
we do is helping animals get

out of a high kill shelter.

And so that's where we're
having all the conversations.

One of the first things we ask
people when they want to foster

is, you know, do you rent?

Because we want to know,
are there regulations?

Because many, unfortunately
here, do have that.

And then it's also the, the current
economic situation we're in.

You know, as people, are challenged
to put food sometimes on their

own table, you know, or pay their
own bills, and then maybe the dog

needs surgery, which is expensive.

Oh, don't,

Anke: don't get me even, don't even go,
let's not even go there, because I've

heard things from friends and clients
I have in the States, and there's the

horror stories they tell about, you
know, the, the, the ridiculous cost

of stuff, and insurances try then not
step up, or like, try and sort of find

some loophole to not have to pay, and.

Yeah, no, that's not, that's not funny.

Krista: Yeah, and it's, and, you know,
I've done so much market research, again,

being a data nerd too, talking with some
of the companies that even, you know, try,

this is their focus, and then also down
to like the grassroots level of, you know,

really helping animals get out every day
from, from this, um, high kill facility.

Um, and I, I, I, What I've, without
having kind of the big picture answer,

which I would love to have or figure out,
I figured, you know, as long as I can

influence my current space in a positive
way, until I know what this big answer is,

you know, and, and also to help people,
you know, within different facilities

within our government and things that
are doing that, but to give them the

tools of how do we think strategically?

How do we follow up?

How do we bring sales in a positive way?

You know, I look at sales as service.

And, you know, and actually interact
with people in a way that, you know,

be appreciative of the volunteers.

There's so many ways that, you know,
that's like crazy to even think that

we say these things coming from the
business side, but to be able to instill

and infuse some of those values and ways
of thinking, I see huge opportunities

because so many times it is, you know,
people that are just literally fighting

with the next person, you know, but they
both want to save animals, but yet it's.

Anke: Yeah, I mean,
that's so the same here.

So, like, how would you, if somebody
goes, so that project you're doing,

like, you know, like, what is it?

Like, what is the, you know, like, what
is the, well, the, the objective, sort

of the outcome, the idea, you know?

So, like, what does that look like?

And they, you know, is it like,
Well, you, you'd explain it.

Krista: Yeah, no, that's a
great, it's a perfect question.

And it really right now is where I'm
open to just opportunities to create

an influence change in this space.

And so everything from speaking
engagements, you know, in front of

this kind of, uh, crowd to help give
them the tools to think strategically,

to solve the problem, you know, a
different way, like bring something

that maybe worked in a different
industry to this industry that's just.

Been the same for I don't know how
long, but ridiculous amounts of time.

I've partnered with Humane Societies
to come up with marketing campaigns to

influence change, you know, in their areas
and bring in, you know, influencers or

different ways to create that positive
relationship and, and really foster

that responsibility that a pet is for
life, you know, it's not for the season.

And, um, then I've also partnered
with the commissioner too and worked,

you know, just on trying to help,
um, some of the local groups better

utilize their funds that they do have
to create, make sure it's going to the

biggest impact activities, because as
you and I both know, there's 80, 000

activities, one that you could do in
your business every day, but also that

could help animals and making sure the
funds that are available are really

invested in those high ROI areas.

Anke: Like really almost like bringing
a business hat to the doggy industry.

Right.

And I love that because I see this
sort of my big vision kind of project

that I thought, Oh, like these steps
don't really draw me in until I

figured out a way to kind of give
this a voice was like a sort of.

You know, and it was inspired
by, you know, a lot of like

rescue people like here.

And it's often, you know, it's often
young girls that are kind of unemployed.

They don't have money.

They haven't got a clue.

They have a passion and they do their
best, you know, but, but it's just always

then like begging for PayPal transfers
and then it's dodgy and people don't like

people, then there's always some, some
people who write off it and, and, and.

And scam people and put like, you
know, horrible pictures of, of

emergency situations to scam people
out of money so nobody trusts

them and they're all struggling.

And I've often thought like, God, if
this was run like a proper business,

you know, when there's a service and
there is, there's like, you know,

there are services that bring in money
so the other stuff can be funded.

And, and I, that's why I was so
excited when I heard you talk,

I was like, you're doing that.

Krista: Yeah, and, and
that's, you're exactly right.

And knowing, you know, your
business background too, it just,

the worlds have been separate in
my experience to a large degree.

I mean, there's definitely people
bringing that in, you know, in different

ways, but there's such an opportunity.

And, you know, one of the questions
that I'm playing with, and I'll give

to you because you're super smart, and
not that we'll know the answer today,

but is, you know, the, the breeding
industry, or, you know, the paid 5, 000

for this specific dog, or, you know,
pet stores, those kind of things, they

market, they run an actual business.

And so how, you know, Do we model what
they've done to get people in, you

know, and also make the rescue dogs,
the rescue cats just as appealing?

Like what is, you know, I almost think
of like the Starbucks effect, you

know, where people all of a sudden
start paying 10 for a cup of coffee.

But how do we like, that's a question
that I don't have the exact answer

to yet, but I know just giving
you that question, your brain will

come up with all kinds of stuff.

But it's kind of thinking like, how
do we Just totally throw the current

model on its head, and what can
that look like where it's actually

a pride and joy and a marker of
awesomeness to have a rescue dog.

Anke: I, like, I'm just like, wait, what?

I can't imagine anything else, right?

Yes, yes.

It's almost like, well, all, you know,
well, the last one isn't specific.

Like, the last one is the only one
where I actually know the parents.

Right.

So, and that wasn't the breeder either.

So it wasn't somebody, Oh, we have
a lot of puppies that need homes.

Right.

So, well, they kind of rescued from
a shitty life too, you know, but it's

the only, the only dog I actually
even know the parents, everybody

else is straight from the street.

Right.

And I think, Looking back at the summit
I ran in February, uh, and the whole sort

of topic around, you know, it was about
ease and anxiety in rescue dogs, right?

Because there's always this narrative
that like, you know, they're all

traumatized and they all, you know,
they come like with baggage and

that's where my mind goes initially.

It's, I think people often hold back from
considering a rescue dog because it's

like, oh, I don't want to like, I'm, I'm
not experienced, so I'd rather go for

a breeder and I get like a blank slate.

You know, so I, I get a new
car kind of thing, right?

I don't want to use this car because
who knows what's under the hood.

And I don't want to have to deal
with all the baggage that comes up.

Right.

And I think change.

And from what I've learned.

From, you know, all the experts
I've spoken to from at the summit

and ever since that I keep inviting
people, uh, and especially sessions

around trauma and, you know, it can
happen to a puppy from a breeder.

Like it doesn't make a difference.

Like I think this is almost like If, if
we could come out with marketing, like

with that, like support that narrative
that a rescued dog is no more damaged

than your puppy from a breeder, you
know, I think that might level out

the playing field a bit, you know.

Krista: And that's a great point too.

I mean, I've seen just crazy stories too
of the, the trauma caused, I mean, with

breeders and how people think it's, oh,
and this beautiful castle and all these

dogs are, no, they're many times kept in
terrible, terrible conditions, you know,

and just, And, and so to your point,
though, the trauma piece, and it's funny

because I didn't know any dog any other
way other than from the, you know, the

shelter, both our dogs were from the, the
kill list, you know, and, um, and, and

it, I mean, both of them did come scared
as can be, but I've also seen dogs that

within two or three days of being in their
new foster home are licking the owner's

face, Sleeping with the owner in the bed,
you know, if that's how they, they are.

And so it can also be a fast
turnaround, but to me, there's, I

guess I get joy in that seeing them
become a dog again, you know, so it's,

Anke: yeah, that's, I love that.

Like we have become a dog again.

And I think it's, it's like, because
there's so many things that can kind of.

It's just like people, you know, you can
be traumatized without having experienced

something really horrible, right?

So it's like, you don't need to
be kidnapped, whatever, you know?

And I think dogs are the same.

They can be like, you know, ripped away
from their mother, like a bit too early.

And they kind of, you know,
and that can be traumatizing.

And a rescued or street dog might go,
I'm doing just fine in the street.

So, you know, so it's like, it isn't that.

It's literally like there is no
causal relationship between here's the

circumstance and here's the trauma.

So there's a correlation obviously, you
know, but it isn't cause and effect.

So I think it isn't, you
know, like your rescue dog.

And I, I remember I had somebody, uh,
I don't know whether you've got that.

This whole yellow, you know, the
whole yellow thing about like your

dog's wearing something yellow,
which basically indicates to

like, my dog needs some space.

Basically my dog can't handle, you
know, it's kind of, I haven't heard

Krista: of that.

Great idea.

It's

Anke: a, it's a whole project.

It's very big in the UK, I think.

And I, I knew about it.

So, you know, and apparently,
and the lady who was really

pushing the thing in the UK.

It was because of her own dog, you
know, who can't handle, like, it's

super fluffy, super cute, so anybody's
like, oh my god, and he just bites.

Like, he just does not like it, you know.

And he's really reactive to other dogs,
other people, like, real sort of, you

know, he's from a breeder, he had no,
no bad, like, you know, so it's not,

it's not, um, I think that would be
a big, big if people realized that.

No, just because they come.

And also sometimes it's like an owner dies
or it's like they haven't done anything

horrible to be in a shelter, you know, so.

No,

Krista: I mean, a lot of times
there's, I mean, we have purebreds

that we have in the shelter too.

I mean, and, or we're guessing they
are based on, you know, how they look.

But, um, It's also really interesting,
too, to think how many times

people were the worst for animals.

And what I mean by that is, my
husband made the comment, because

we used to always have our dog when
we'd go walking and say, Oh, there's

another person with their dog.

Do our dogs want to say hi?

What a stupid thing, he pointed out,
because as a human, I don't want to go up

and say hi to every person on the street.

Why in the world would I assume my
dog wants to say hi to their dog?

And, you know, I mean, how stupid,
but yet we do that and we put

them in face to face, which is
actually an aggressive approach.

Anke: That's the other,
that's the other angle.

That's the other approach to it.

It's almost to say, well, if people
were, because like, what, like, unless

somebody dies or some, you know, like
a lot of people give up their dogs

because they just can't handle the dog.

So there's just some
stuff like they can't get.

So where it's like, well, what if we
could educate, starting with children,

educate people better to read body
language, to understand how dogs actually

function so that less people find like,
Oh my God, I can't handle this dog.

So I think, well, that would
be a big start, too, you know?

Krista: That would be a huge piece.

And even understanding, like, part of
the education campaign I was mapping out

included teaching about the importance
of spay and neuter for health benefits.

And it also makes both females
and males less aggressive.

I mean, so we lessen the likelihood
of dog fights, dog bites, plus

unnecessary extra animals, too.

I mean, so it was like I do believe the
hugest starting point, I think most humans

have a good heart and want to do right.

They just don't have the education or
the access to be able to do better and so

it's up to us to find ways to, you know,
start a thing like this lady in the UK.

I love that yellow bandana.

I'll send you the

Anke: link to it.

Please do because I would love

Krista: to see that and maybe
it's taken off here in the U.

S.

and I've just, Not seen it, but, but even
for, you know, so many times when a person

takes a foster dog home, we say they
need at least two weeks to decompress.

They've been in, you know, keep them
away from other dogs, you know, even

if you have pets, just, you know, do
small introductions and people usually

bring them home and they're like, we're
having a party tomorrow and we're going

to, and it's, you know, and I'm joking,
hopefully they aren't really having a

party, but it's like, they don't think
about what the dog needs and how to set.

But I, even if we tell them, you
know, or they're like, We don't

know if they get along with cats,
and they put them immediately with

cats, and then the cat gets attacked.

It's, so I think

Anke: It's crazy.

It is.

I think it is the education piece where I
think it's more so than reducing, I mean

obviously, you know, avoiding unwanted
litters, while that makes sense, right?

But I don't think almost like the amount
of animals around isn't the problem.

It's like people not knowing how,
not having the environment and

mostly not knowing how to make that,
you know, co living successful.

Krista: Yes.

And you know, um, and I know we're,
uh, just real quick, one other thing

that I thought was really interesting
to learn too is really, um, some of the

individuals I interviewed spoke about
how the humane society a lot of times in

the United States for sure is looked at,
oh, that's where I go and dump my dog

kind of thing, or that's like, that's the
place you take them if it doesn't work

out, but instead to rebrand it in a way
as this is a resource You know, maybe

you go there for help with dog training.

Maybe you're having financial
challenges and they maybe have a

program that could help with dog food.

Or, you know, you got evicted.

There was one that was like, the,
it was something along pause, but it

was like on pause, so that you could
actually have a foster for your dog

for a month if you lost your home and
needed A place like that kind of stuff's

Anke: brilliant.

I love that.

Oh

Krista: yeah.

And have it be more of a resource center
versus, I'm just giving up, look at it

as, okay, this is a lifetime commitment.

You know?

Ideally people look that at
their children that way too.

And how do you know our
child had whatever challenge?

Okay, so we go solve the challenge
versus just dumping it, you know?

And maybe even.

You know, shifting that way of thinking
could really create big shifts too.

Anke: Oh totally, totally.

So to wrap up, where can
people find out about you and

get in touch and support you?

Krista: Yes, well thank you very much and
of course I love just talking with you,

we could do that all day but Um, on, you
know, my website is unleashedproject.

com and you can find information there.

It's very basic information, but that's
probably the easiest way through the

contact form there just to reach out
and that'll go directly to me and,

and, you know, we can have whatever
conversations about really helping to

shift this, this consciousness and,
and improve the education and the

awareness so we can create bigger change.

Anke: Thank you so much.

And I can't wait to continue
conversation with you.

Krista: Yes, absolutely.

I will have it to be continued.

Awesome.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Thanks so much for listening.

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That's A N k E at Soul
touched by dogs.com.