Soul Touched by Dogs

Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs
Podcast, the show for dog lovers who

see dogs not as toys or tools, but
wise souls worth our respect and care.

I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host.

I talk to poor some humans, people who
do great work for dogs and their people.

So come and join us for
today's conversation.

Anke: Hello and welcome Megan.

I'm like super excited to have you here.

Meghan: Hi.

Hi.

I am really excited to be here.

Anke: Wonderful.

So let's start out, as we always start,
let people know where in this world

you are from, where you are based,
and what's your business with dogs.

Meghan: Yeah.

Okay, cool.

So, I'm originally from Toronto, Canada,
um, but I've been in London, England for.

Coming up to nine years now.

Um, yeah, I'm, I moved here in my
early twenties for six weeks to

check it out, and clearly I love it.

Never left.

Um, and this is kind of where
I began my journey with dogs.

I, um, got the university degree.

I got a job that I thought I was meant
to have, you know, related to my degree.

And, um.

I just, I couldn't hack the commute.

I couldn't hack the sitting in one place.

I did it for about a year.

Um, and then what was the job

Anke: like?

What, what was the original career?

Meghan: Yeah.

I worked in, um, like social
enterprise that worked in Oh, okay.

Um, which, you know, like could have,
could have been a pathway for me,

but it just, um, it didn't, it didn't
fit if something felt kind of off.

Um, and so yeah, I quit and I kind
of felt like in total free fall and

I was like, what am I gonna do now?

I just wanna be outside.

I just wanna do something that I love.

I grew up with dogs and so I
got a job at a dog daycare.

Um, as a dog walker and I worked there
for about two months before I got fired,

which, which was probably for the best.

Um, me and the, the owner,
we didn't really gel.

She maybe was a bit too into the,
like, obedience training, um,

for her, her dogs and her staff.

Um, but I think that was like a
real blessing in disguise or like

a real pivot moment in my life
because I just thought, well, I'll,

you know, I'll just do this myself.

Um, so I started my own dog walking
business probably in the same week,

uh, and just spent a lot of time
like in my local park handing out

flyers to people with dogs, being
like, hi, can I walk your dog?

And it just kind of snowballed from there.

Like it really kind of
like grew quite quickly.

Um, and I just, yeah, I think that was
like such a, a beautiful period of my life

that kind of like woke me up to like, what
now feels like a calling or a purpose.

Um mm-hmm.

And yeah, I think the seed for me that
started, uh, you know, when I was kind

of like, do like really good at it
and I'm like, what is going on here?

Like, why am I able to kind of like
connect and be with these dogs?

Like, it was about like
energetic attunement.

Um, and I was really feeling like I
had to be present for those dogs in

order to, you know, not lose them.

Um, oh, obviously helpful.

Yeah.

Um, and it's like in being present,
they could feel that and then they

were more present and more responsive.

Um, and then in that, I was kind of went
through like quite a significant like

transformational healing process, I would
say that then just became this like.

Positive feedback loop almost.

Um, and then from there I started to,
you know, I had lots of clients who

really kind of trusted me and so I just
started offering training walks with

the dogs that I was already walking.

Like, I know your dog pretty well.

Why don't we go on a walk together
and I can kind of show you

what I've learned about them.

Oh.

Anke: Yeah.

That is very cool.

I love that.

So it's not so preachy in a sense.

Like it's not like here's the,
and this is what you do and

here's where the treat goes.

So it's more like, let me share
with you what I've learned about

your dog while you were out working.

Meghan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

That's awesome.

Anke: I love that.

Yeah.

Meghan: Yeah.

And it just, um.

Yeah, it really sparked some
like creative energy in me.

Mm.

Um, and um, from there I started
to develop, um, kind of like,

well, what are the values that sit
underneath the work that I'm doing?

Um, so the values that I kind of started
with and still really apply to my work

today are, um, attunement, like that idea
of like the, um, emotional connection.

Um, curiosity, autonomy, and joy.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and it was like those things
that kind of were the foundation

for the framework that I then.

Developed, um, over time.

Um, and that was about a five year period
of walking dogs and tr and developing,

working on this framework, um, that has
evolved and is always evolving, right?

Like I'm constantly learning and you
know, every session I have and every

conversation I have with a client, like.

It, it changes or informs like how
I'm doing what I'm doing and why.

Um, and like, I guess I would say
that I went on a para, I, I was

maybe mentioned that I was on this
kind of parallel process of like, I.

Healing my own stuff, you know,
and like being in relationship with

dogs, like so facilitated that.

Yeah.

And every time I learned something
over here in the people world, or

like about our nervous systems or our
kind of like reactive responses owing

to our trauma, I would just be like.

This is the same for dogs.

Anke: Mm-hmm.

We are also similar, isn't it?

I love that.

I love that.

How you just sort of take one
step at a time, you know, start

like, this sounds really like
how I started my sewing business.

Just like, Hey, do you want a dress?

Right.

I mean, it's, it's kind of, initially
it's, it's hard in the beginning.

It's like when nobody knows
you, but it catches on quickly.

Right.

So I'm really curious about, um.

The framework you mentioned, you
know, so do you wanna, do you

wanna unpack that a little bit?

Like, is there, like, has it
got a name or like, what's the,

what do they call pieces to it?

Obviously we're not gonna
have time to sort of dig in.

That's when people can find out
more about you and get, get closer.

But if you wanna have a little
kind of overview of the framework.

Meghan: Yeah.

Yeah, I would love to.

Um, it's funny if you've asked if
it has a name and I've thought,

you know, for years, like, why
doesn't have this, this have a name?

I'm not a marketing dude.

Well, I can, I can go
into the pieces, right?

So, um, you know, a, I guess because
of how I began and the language that

I used was around training and it
was about like skills development.

Um.

That was maybe how I started, but,
um, because I was learning a lot about

like the nervous system and polyvagal
theory and like stuff to do with like

somatic healing, like in my own life.

Um, and I started to apply that more
with working with dogs and like how I

was positioning myself in the world.

Um.

A lot of my work became about
supporting people who dogs are reactive.

That's in air quotes for
people who are listening.

Um, anxious, fearful, um, you
know, so dogs that have any kind of

like behavioral concerns and, um.

No, no matter like what the
behavioral issue that someone

kind of comes to me to address, I
usually start in the same place.

And then it is very much
emergent when we go from there.

And I do have kind of like tools
and frameworks that we work

through, but I guess the, um, the
seed is always like trying to help

them understand that the dog is.

In a reactive state owing to like a
dysregulation in their nervous system.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and they're acting from a
place of fear and not aggression.

And that can be a trauma response or it
can be just, you know, a chronic kind

of like fear place that they're in.

Um.

And because for me the
why is so important.

'cause it informs the what.

And you know, even people who
come to me with less of like a

obedience background or like, how
do I get my dog to stop doing that?

You know, people still don't necessarily
have that framing of understanding.

And once I can support them to see
that, and they can see that, you

know, your dog is dysregulated,
then the approach changes.

Right?

We care about.

Regulating your dog and helping
them feel safe, helping them feel

understood, um, rather than kind of
change the behavior, which is kind

of like more on the surface, right?

Yeah.

Um, so that's kind of

Anke: bandaid kind of stuff.

So how do you, you know, how
does somebody go about, somebody

goes, oh yeah, nervous system.

That makes sense.

You know, so for us, you know,
people will go, oh yeah, I can go

meditation, do meditation, do somatic
exercises, that kind of stuff like.

I have tried yoga with my dog.

It was very funny, a downward
dog, and I'd get my face licked.

So yoga with a dog did
not work well for me.

So, I mean, what's what, like how do
you suggest somebody helps their dog?

Common nervous system.

Meghan: Yeah.

Cool.

Tha thank you for that question.

Um, 'cause it, um, well I guess like,
so for a few years, like I was working

with my own tools and the things that
I had learned and, um, I have like

a different like caretaker skills.

So I often start with the person
and I'm like, you know, it's.

Actually also about your self-regulation.

It's about your ability to
practice attuned communication

and consent based handling and
cultivate your observation skills.

And so we kind of start with the person.

Then when we actually look at
working with the dog, something

that, um, slots honestly like it's.

So, such a, um, transformative
approach that I've come across, um,

two years ago now, I guess, um, is
something called Tellington Touch.

Mm-hmm.

Um, is, is that, is that familiar?

Anke: Well, I mean, to me it is,
but it might not be to listener.

So if you can kind of just
like un unpack it a little bit.

Meghan: Sure.

Yeah.

So I'm, I've been studying
this for the last two years.

I'm doing my practitioner training,
uh, and it's basically like a

combination of body work, groundwork,
um, and observation to support a

dog to, um, change their posture
and improve their physical ballads.

Um.

Because there's, I guess the, the theory
behind it is that our physical balance and

our posture, uh, influences our emotional
balance and our, our mental balance.

Anke: Well, that makes sense.

Yeah.

I mean, we know it's like I.

And you feel kind of different instantly.

Right.

So that would make sense.

Meghan: Yeah.

Yeah.

Exactly right.

And often what I kind of ask my
clients to do when I'm trying to, um,

explain that is, you know, get them
to think about a recent difficult

conversation that they've had.

And, um, for anyone listening,
you know, you can do that too.

Think of something that was a bit, a
bit difficult, a challenge at work, a

conversation with a boss or something.

And try and have that
conversation in your mind.

Well.

You know, like scrunching up your, your
face and tensing your shoulders and being

quite like inward and think about what
that, the feeling tone of that is, right.

And then try and reimagine
that conversation again.

But you've kind of exhaled, you've got
your feet in line with your hips in

line with your shoulders, and you're
just a bit more kind of like open.

And the feeling tone of
that is quite different.

And it's just the same for dogs.

Anke: I love it because
it's so true though, right?

And when the problem
is it works both ways.

Like it works in a good way, but it
also, you know, like if we are tense,

they also pick it up, you know, so
it's like so connected that kind

of can backfire in a way, right?

Meghan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Totally.

Right.

And that's why this kind of piece
around atunement is so important,

um, because if a to is that bridge
between the human and the dog, right?

Like.

Our own embodied experience and our own
ability to like self-regulate in those

moments is so, um, a part of that puzzle.

Yeah,

Anke: and I think actually when I
look at my own experience, I think.

Dogs can really like teach
us in that, in that way.

Like I had here Mr.

Mr Kay, and he was like, you know, really
horrible start to his like little life.

And then he, and when I got him
he would constantly, where's Kay?

He'd be hiding in some flower pot.

Like, he'd literally be
hiding all the time, right?

So.

And he was very sort of very
sensitive, very skittish, very nervous.

And, and so, so you can imagine going
for a walk with him in the historic

part of town where there's like noises
bouncing off and it'd be like, you know,

it wasn't much fun with him, you know,
he was like such a polar, like crazy.

And sometimes, but sometimes it was better
than or worse than others, you know?

And I came to the point where
I'm like, for God sake, you know?

And then it was like, wait.

Yeah.

How am I, I'm all right.

Like, I'm, you know, and I'm like,
well, and then I would make a conscious

effort to, you know, breathe, touch a
tree and kind of like, you know, and,

and all of a sudden the dog would slow,
like calm down as well, you know, so

it's, it's easy to see and I think
they can almost bring to light a lot

of the time what's going on with us.

Right.

Meghan: Yeah, yeah, totally.

Breathe and touch a tree.

That's, that's medicine right there.

Um, and yeah, so it's, so I just think
it's like so important to think about

how we're showing up in those moments.

Um, and then thinking on the other
side, like for the dog, like, well,

you know, if your dog is walking down
the street and they hear a sound and

they hear a cyclist or there's a kid
running around and like every time they

are a bit experience that arousal like.

What are they doing with their body?

Right?

They're gonna be probably contracting
and tensing in the same way.

Yeah.

Um, and then once that kind
of happens chronically, right?

That becomes their, their habit.

Their posture, right?

And so I think having this
more body-based approach that,

um, works directly with like.

Um, supporting them to change
their posture through, through

body work, through groundwork,
through non habitual movement.

It's just like the, the changes that
I've seen have been unlike anything I've

seen in the years prior to doing it.

Um, I.

Anke: I mean, it makes, it makes
all, all the sense in the world.

And is that something that, that you
teach the owners or is that something

that, um, you know, they'll come
to you for and you teach the dog?

Or how, how does that work?

Meghan: Hmm, yeah.

So, um.

The, the, we do, we do
a lot in the session.

So, um, I, I slot it into, um, my
kind of framework, but I will run a

session like a, like a TTouch session.

I'm permitted to do that even though
I'm not a certified practitioner

yet, 'cause I'm already or a
professional, like working with dogs.

Um, but I, I do a lot of like.

Observation, like how is the dog,
um, coping in their environment?

How are they moving around in their body?

Are they putting all of their
weight on all four of their paws?

Like, what's going on?

What's getting in their way?

And as I do that, I am sharing
that information with the caretaker

and sh and like kind of, you know,
asking them what they're observing

as well and trying to kind of guide
them along the process with me.

And then kind of based on whatever
the observations then that's.

That's gonna inform the intervention.

So, um, if someone's coming to me
and they're saying, oh, my dog gets

really startled with noise all the
time, and then I might see that the

dog has kind of an ear that's a bit
asymmetrical, maybe they need some ear

work and some support to kind of like
release whatever's going on there.

Um, and so I'll do the, the
touch work in the session.

Um.

Or, you know, or the groundwork, which
was more like, kind of like moving

the dog through different elements
in like a very slow and intentional

way to influence their proprioception
and their vestibular system.

Um, but then at the end we kind
of like wrap up and there's

always, there's always homework.

There's always like tools that they can
take with them because, well, I also

think is so powerful about TTouch is
that you don't need to be a practitioner

to like have an impact, right?

There's quite simple.

Tools and like the combination of
just knowing the basics and knowing

your dog and trusting your intuition,
like you can have a, a real impact.

Anke: Hmm.

And that makes it more powerful
because, you know, not everybody's

gonna have to, oh, you know,
it's, it's just like massages.

You know, you think, well,
they're kind of nice, but if I

have to go to, to one every week.

Then it becomes a less optimal kind of
solution if you're sort of dependent

on, on the treatment in a way.

You know?

So if there is something that people
can do by themselves with their dog,

you know, doesn't mean you shouldn't go
back to the practitioner, but the day

to day, you know, if you can actually
do something without needing the

professional help all the time, I think
that makes it more usable for people.

Right.

Meghan: Yeah.

Yeah.

It's a really, really accessible tool.

And it actually, like the kind of
principles or like what we're like

trying to influence in the body, like
actually benefits from less, not more

like, because it's not, doesn't, uh.

Have you gone, oh no, you're here.

Sorry.

Oh, sorry, sorry.

My, my laptop went strange for a second.

Um, but it's not actually aiming to
influence the musculoskeletal system.

It works with the nervous system and it
works with the fascia and the nervous

system doesn't like, need a lot, right?

To actually be able to like, experience
a shift, be offered a new neural pathway.

So, you know, you can, um.

One of my clients once called
it constructive cuddles.

'cause it's like you can just do it for
like 20 seconds to, to a couple minutes at

a time, and you actually can like really
influence the nervous system of the dog.

Anke: Oh, constructive cuddles.

That's like so cute.

Yeah.

It's almost like permission
to cuddle, like I'm all in.

Yeah, yeah.

Always kind of try and hold back
a bit because, you know, most dogs

don't really like it, you know,
so, and we kind of really like it,

but like, oh, constructive cuddles.

Now there is an idea.

Meghan: Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

A lot, a lot of the work that I do
is supporting people to think of,

to reevaluate the way that they
engage in, in touch with their dog.

Because you're right
there is like, you know.

A lot of ways that we do touch dogs
that kind of, we do non thinkingly

that might actually be contributing
to arousal or not necessarily being

something that the dog enjoys.

But this actually kind of asks you
to kind of just take a second, get

in your body, look at what the dog
might need and like ask them if

you can touch them in that way.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and t touch is very much
a lot about like feedback.

So you do it for like 10, 20
seconds and then you just stop.

Anke: And then you'll see
whether they lean in or walk off.

Meghan: Exactly.

Or do a shake or whatever it is.

And then, you know, you go back.

And so, you know, going back to that
example of the dog who might need some

ear work, if I identify that, I'm not
gonna just start touching the dog's

ears 'cause that might feel intense.

Right.

So it's about like finding the entry
point, finding like what feels good

for them, and then kind of slowly
through that process of like doing

it a bit, stopping, waiting for
feedback, working towards the ears.

So.

It also gives the dog the experience of
being handled in a way that is consensual.

Um, so it's quite trust building as well.

Anke: Mm, yeah.

I think there's more and more people
talking about that, that um, idea of

giving the dog as much agency as possible.

You know, where we kind of, so
used to, well, not me, but, but

like, I remember actually I had
a neighbor, they had a guide dog.

You know?

Yeah.

And so that poor dog was like on
like working all the time, you know?

And then the moment they'd unclip her
and like, okay, now she got ordered to

do a wee somewhere like now and here.

Yeah.

You know, like that dog didn't even,
wasn't even allowed to breathe by herself.

Right.

Yeah.

And it's like, oh God no, I don't
wanna be in her, in her pause.

For sure.

So, yeah.

So is this something that where you
think like, okay, uh, once we've got.

The dog kind of like calmed
down or regulated a bit, then

it's that, or is this something
that would turn into a habit?

It's something that you'll always
do or, or is it like, okay,

once they kind of know how to.

Calm themselves down, then we're kind
of good, or, or would you always like,

just like with meditation we say,
well, you know, you might not need

to necessarily, but it's a good idea.

Or, you know, how, how does it work?

Meghan: Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Um, well, like, you know,
every case is, is different.

And, um, sometimes I'm in a
session and I do something with

a dog and we just see them.

Change their posture in
like in immediate way.

And it's a bit like weird magic.

Um, and sometimes it is
more about the kind of like

consistent, still putting it in.

Um, one tool that they use, which
IT touch uses, which I really,

really love is, um, body wraps.

So kind of using like, um, ace bandages,
elastic catered, kind of stretchy

bandages to, uh, wrap the dog up in
a certain way and like bring them.

Into movement in that wrap.

And what it does is it offers
feedback into the nervous system and

influences the proprioceptive system.

Um, for people who aren't familiar with
that, where is, it's like basically,

um, your body's understanding of
the body parts in relation to each

other and the space around you.

So if I've got kind of chronic tension
in my shoulders, um, if I put a wrap

on myself, I might, my brain might send
a signal being like, why are my ears.

So close to my shoulders.

Um, and then through that I kind of
relax and that changes my posture,

it changes my holding pattern.

And so applying a wrap every day for
up to 20 minutes for a period of time,

you know, different for every case,
but that can have that lasting impact.

Um, and, but you don't need
to do it every day forever.

It becomes a case that, you know,
you might do it occasionally for

maintenance, but these tools can
have a profound lasting effect.

Anke: Mm.

And it does make sense because I
think once you are getting used to

being aware of that, you know, like I
remember that, um, when I was living

in London for all, all places there, I
used to go to Tai Chi classes, right?

And the, I remember the very first class,
the guy goes, okay, go and, you know,

stand there and relax your shoulders.

And so you rack your shoulders
and he would come and goes,

you've done yoga, haven't you?

Meghan: You

Anke: know?

And he says, I could tell.

The way you relax your shoulders and
somebody who hasn't got that bodily,

like that physical awareness, you know,
he says like, they're kind of like this.

And then you kind of say, you relax your
shoulder and they go kind of like that.

You know?

So it's, it's like, and
he says, you can tell.

Who's done like ballet or, or gymnastics
or, or kind of any, anything that requires

you to be like really consciously aware
of your body and how it's placed in space.

You know, so you could tell immediately,
you know, and I think it feels, it sounds

like, oh yeah, same for dogs, right?

So it's almost like once they
realized like, oh, actually, hmm.

Is that, is that correct?

Or am I making this up?

Meghan: No, no, no.

That's, that's bang on basically, right?

It's like, you know, they
don't, if we're talking about a

habit, a postural habit, right?

And so if you're in that place where your
shoulders are chronically tense or your

a dog and your ears are constantly back,
or a lot of, you know, you can map on

some of the more behavioral or emotional
responses to how they hold themselves.

So like, um, a tucked tail is a, is
a, is a fear, um, pattern, right?

Which we're probably familiar with.

But, um, um.

Yeah.

Like if we, if they're doing that, they're
doing that non thinkingly, that's a habit.

And that often, um, you know, tensing
yourself in that way, in a way that

doesn't like help you use your body
effectively is probably quite painful.

And so how does our, how does
our brain deal with pain?

Right?

It like.

Disaggregates parts of our body.

Um, so that that dog with a tucked tail
might not have a lot of awareness in

their hind quarters, in their tail.

Right.

Um, and so by using these different
practices and tools, you can help

them bring that part of their body
back online and then, then yeah.

They have that awareness and they have
that ability to kind of like move,

uh, in a way that is more integrated.

Anke: That makes so much sense.

So where can people go and uh,
you know, do you work online or

do you strictly work locally?

Or how can people find out more?

And you know, I.

Get your help.

Meghan: Yeah.

Great.

Thank you.

Um, so yeah, I recently started,
uh, a Substack and I'm trying

to be a bit more online and been
doing this for six years now.

And, um, I, I work locally, but I am,
I'm like ready to reach a bit further.

So I've got, um, a substack that
is free and then there's a paid.

Version that is more about like kind
of getting the, the live coaching

and the direct support about what's
going on with people and their dogs.

Um, otherwise, yeah, I do online, um,
coaching sessions, um, which can have a

benefit and there are elements of TTouch
that can definitely be taught online.

Um, and then, yeah, I'm based in
East London for those who are local.

Anke: Awesome.

Awesome.

So obviously we're gonna have
the link right below this, so I'm

not gonna make it hard to find.

Thank you so much.

I was absolutely, you know, it's
lovely to speak to somebody from London

where I used to live, and so Yeah.

And I love, I love what you're doing and
I love how you're bringing, you know,

the, the, the human things and the, the
how you bring that together in, in this

lovely and wonderfully accessible way.

So thank you.

Meghan: Thank you so much.

Yeah, so much.

It's been a real pleasure being on here.

Thank you for having me.

Anke: Thank

Meghan: you.

Okay.

Thanks so much for listening.

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