Soul Touched by Dogs

Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs
Podcast, the show for dog lovers who

see dogs not as toys or tools, but
wise souls worth our respect and care.

I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host.

I talk to poor some humans, people who
do great work for dogs and their people.

So come and join us for
today's conversation.

Anke: and welcome, Paul.

I'm extra excited to have you here.

Back at you.

Lovely.

So, I have here with me today
the original dog, Whisperer.

So, you're in for an extra treat.

So, Paul, share with people, you know,
where in this lovely world are you

and what's your business with dogs?

Paul: Well, uh, you know, I
never know what's going to

come out of my mouth anymore.

So bear with me.

So

when I was writing my, my latest
book is called, uh, training for the,

oh, wait a minute, Shameless Pluck.

I wrote this book.

I had a number of avenues I could go
down because I'm celebrating my 50th

year as a professional dog trainer.

There's not many of us
old fogies around anymore.

And so I was trying to decide, well,
what theme do I want to go with?

And It turned out I have so many stories,
I could fill a lot of these books, but

I decided that what I would like to do
is celebrate the progress that we've

all made over the last, uh, number of
decades, uh, treating dog kindness.

Is that a dog?

Anke: I've got two right here.

My, my two

Paul: girls.

If they're small enough to pick
them up, show them to the camera.

All right.

Okay.

Uh, and so I decided what I wanted
to do is make this a celebration,

make the book a celebration of,
especially I think the two biggest.

changes since I started training back
in the 70s to what's going on now.

Uh, the biggest, I think,
is empathy for dogs.

Instead of being, we own dogs
and their property, it's their

family members and their friends.

And that has resulted, and I did a short
Study on it in hundreds of millions of

dogs being saved over the last hundreds
of millions because people's hearts

have expanded all because of dogs and we
look at those doleful eyes looking up at

us and we see that happy wagging tail.

I'm convinced that politics would be,
uh, we wouldn't have as many problems

if while everybody was meeting they
were holding a puppy in their hands.

Anke: If

Paul: anybody treated that puppy
cruelly, they're out of there,

you know, and, uh, And so, dogs
teach us a lot about ourselves,

and so I don't get too long winded.

Uh, I feel, as you do, uh, not
only lucky, but blessed that we've

been able to, to work with these
wonderful souls all these years.

Anke: I love that.

I love this so much.

And actually I will probably not be
able to unsee that in politics now.

Always imagine everybody with a puppy.

That's so cool.

So, I mean, like when I kind of first
had my first dog, that's kind of 20

years ago, he, like things have come a
long way, especially where I'm in Spain.

It's like, you know, the way people
relate to dogs has come quite a long way.

What, you know, on the scale to
where we came from, where dogs were

literally like tools or toys for the
kids or something, like something

that serves us, to, in your ideal
world, where we would want to get to?

Where do you think we're at?

Paul: Well, that's a really good
question, uh, because people like you

and I and the people that we have as
friends and family Uh, we look at dogs

as basically like mirrors of who we are.

Well, I'm going to have to work
on that because I'm feeling really

stressed and everything, and it
shows us what we have to work on.

But it also talks about if there is a
meaning to life, uh, which is another

good topic for a program, by the way.

Uh, if there is a meaning to life,
the whole purpose, which I wish we

would have learned when we were in
grade school, is the whole purpose

of life is to expand your heart.

And that's it.

And dogs allow us to do that.

Uh, and so on a scale from one to
10, I think we've gone from a one to

two back 50 years ago because of how
I used to treat dogs for the first

14 years as a professional doctor.

And I didn't use treats.

And yet I had a dog who went on to become
nationally recognized for how obedient she

was, and she wasn't trained with treats.

But it turns out she was just a great
spirit, and she can handle anything.

She just rolled with it.

But then, after about 14 years,
I said, boy, this is no way to

treat a family member and a friend.

And I had to go back to school to
learn force free, reward based dog

training, non violent dog training.

And so, from Uh, a one
to two fifty years ago.

I think we're up to a solid seven,
uh, if we can get rid of the whole

property angle and you can have more
programs like yours to help expand

the message that, you know, dogs are
a lot more than we thought they were.

Uh, and so I don't get too long
winded here, but dog trainer is

just like any teacher of anything.

You're learning how to dance,
you're learning a new language,

you're learning anything.

The two biggest points we all try to
make is that number one, education.

People, I don't know calculus.

I don't know how to play a trumpet.

I'm ignorant of those skills,
so I have to learn them.

Uh, but so education is number
one, but motivation is number two.

And once people learn to what their dogs
can do and what their abilities are and

what they really mean to us in our lives,
we're starting motivating to become even

closer and closer and closer to them.

So I think we're up to a solid seven,
but boy, we got a lot of work to do.

Anke: Yeah, I know.

It feels like, I think, it does, it's
my sensation too that we've come a

long way, but there's also You know,
when I'm sort of, there's certain

people on the internet that you
kind of follow, and you think, well,

they, there's almost like a pushback.

There's a particular guy that
I have in mind, like he's a

dog trainer in Mallorca, right?

And he's constantly talking
about how, basically, like his

narrative is fairly simple, and
it's always about all problems.

That we have with dogs being
aggressive and fighting people

and attacking each other.

It all comes from owners that
are too permissive, like we're

too nice to our dogs, right?

So there is, and I think the part that I
see dangerous and things like that, it's

like there's a half truth in it, Right.

They, they, you know, when people don't
give a dog leadership, like it's not about

just allowing the dog to do just anything.

Right.

So it's, it's about teaching.

And so now he comes as a, well, they're
just like too lenient and they're like,

Oh, you can't correct the dog at all.

So, well, of course the
dog thinks they're boss.

And then, you know, the problem
is that the case he's making, and

I see people like, Oh, this is
the way, like, this makes sense.

This makes sense.

Right.

And it's almost like.

pushing back, you know, because at the
end of the day, it does more harm than

good because it doesn't inspire people
who are maybe not consistent in their,

you know, guidelines that that's not
speaking to them, but the people who kind

of looking for an excuse to control the
dog will use that as the justification

that I'm right in punishing the dog.

Paul: Boy, that's a,
that's a That's a big wall.

Uh, when I switched over to positive
training back in the late 80s and

everything, I found that because I
was, I can speak with authority on

this because I was very successful
using those and I'm very successful

using these, uh, but you just take a
step back and say science is science.

Here's the two big secrets of
dog training, which I'm sure

you've never heard before.

It's number one, dogs are transactional.

Whoever has the most value or money,
that's who the dog listens to.

So the very first thing we do is we tell
our clients to increase their value.

So, Just playing with it for a second.

If you have real chicken, turkey, cheese,
hamburger, steak, bacon, roast beef, hot

dog, you are worth 10, 000 to 20, 000.

If you have dry treats when you first get
a dog, you're worth 1, 000 to 10, 000.

And your praise is worth about 50 cents.

And people get, what do you mean, I
bathe this dog, I feed this dog, what

do you mean it's only worth 50 cents?

Well, science is science, because
your competition is Mother Nature.

Mother Nature in the form of
anything novel, anything new.

The sights, the sounds, the smells,
other dogs, cats, squirrels, the UPS

driver, United Parcel Service driver
that comes to our doors and drops stuff

off, that's a 50, 000 distraction.

So, if Dogs listen to
who has the most value.

The first thing you have to do
is increase your value, and this

directly, hopefully, addresses what
you just were talking about, Anke, is

that fear can't increase your value.

The dog says, I better not do
something because something

bad is going to happen to me.

But the second is, is rewards,
reinforcements, positive reinforcements.

They're also Increasing your value.

So the sliver of truth that you were
talking about, it is true, that positive

reward based dog training, uh, it's
It's positive, but it's not permissive.

Safety is number one.

So you have to set up an environment
where the dog can basically learn

how to do stuff without you, without
a fear of being hurt or being

physically or emotionally damaged.

And so there is a little truth
that negative training does work

because you've increased your value.

However, And now I'm on
a soapbox, of course.

Uh,

if we have, you humans have the
intelligence and creativity and intuitive

sense to go to the moon, to do all
the wonderful things we've got, we can

certainly get a dog to learn how to sit,
lie down, stay, get you a soda out of the

refrigerator if you want, and, and, and
it's their idea and they really love it.

So why can't we do that?

The fact is we can, and all the trainers
and all of the programs, for instance,

like yours that are coming up are helping
to spread that message, but boy, it

takes a long time to change a habit.

For you dog enthusiasts in the
audience, let me take some, if

there are any over here, more than,
more than my, uh, my friends here.

If you I have a little bit of
value, and you feel that you can

change a dog's environment, how
long does it take to change the

environment to change their behavior?

Two to twelve months.

My housemate, who I've been living
with for nine years, dear friend

of mine, changed the light on
our kitchen wall ten months ago.

I'm still looking at that
other wall because I've been

looking at it for ten months.

So all science, uh, again, I'm getting
along with it, uh, but all science

is just correcting neural pathways.

While we're talking, little
neurons are connecting.

Hello, Joe, what are we learning here?

No, no, you want to go over there to Fred.

And, and.

A neural pathway is a behavior.

You connect enough of them and you replace
the old behaviors with new behaviors.

First thing you have to do is increase
your value because dogs are transactional

and number two, dogs are contextual.

Why does it take two to 12 months?

If you see somebody at work and
then two months later you see

them in a restaurant and you go, I
know that person from some place.

I can't get it.

And so you have to reintroduce yourself.

And then two months later, you're
in Spain, and you see the person

sitting at a little coffee shop.

And you say, I know I know
that person, gosh darn it,

but you can't quite place it.

That's not because the
dog or you are stupid.

It's just because not enough
neural pathways have connected.

That's why it takes two to twelve months.

Science is science.

So those are the two big
secrets in dog training.

Increase your value.

Number one, make a sound
like a kissy sound.

Uh, and give your dog a treat.

Pavlov used to ring bells.

So kissy sound treat.

Within a day and a half, the dog says,
Oh, you never have to say no anymore,

just make that kissy sound and tell
me what you want me to do instead.

And so you have to have big money with you
for a couple of months, but just take all

the pressure off you and realize Mother
Nature's doing all the work for us anyway.

And it takes her two to 12
months to build these roads.

Anke: Hmm.

I love that.

I love that.

So, so now, now let's, apart, okay, we,
we've established chicken, so now how

else do I Uh, increase my value, right?

Do I have to then go and say, well,
let's just get some serrano ham out?

Are there other things than food?

Paul: You're, you're spot on.

Uh, and it's the number one
transition that people like me who

were negative traits become tough.

Well, I don't want to have to bribe my
dog and give them treats all my life.

Science is science.

So number one, you find something that
dog, dog really likes to do is go outside.

You have them sit.

And then you say, okay, that's
a safety concern among anything.

My dog is jumping on me.

What do you want your dog to do instead?

My dog is stealing food off the counter.

What do you want your dog to do
instead without having to use food?

Life rewards are anything a dog wants.

There isn't food.

You want to go for a walk, want to get
in the car, want to chase a ball, want to

get petted, want to get on the couch, you
can do all of those things as long as you

sit, pick up a toy, go to your bed, lie
down, look at me and ask, and I'll give

it to you, until it becomes a habit, and
then you don't have to use treats anymore.

How long does it take?

Two to twelve months.

And the other thing is form what
is called behavioral change.

You teach, this is stuff you already
know, you teach a dog to sit,

You give him a treat and pet him.

He's teaching dogs to
go to their bed and sit.

Then you give them the treat.

Teach your dog to go to your bed,
sit down, stay, come, all that stuff.

And that's a behavioral change.

It's why here, do they
have lotteries in Spain?

Anke: Yeah.

Paul: Yeah.

It's, it's why the people who set up
the lotteries, you don't have to pay

people to pay, buy a lottery ticket.

They have found out that, and in science
it's called anticipatory response.

Whenever dogs can anticipate
something great is going to happen,

they'll do whatever you want.

Food isn't involved.

And so the lottery people were very
smart, they set up these algorithms,

and they said, you know, if we get
this amount of people to win this

amount of money, we'll start to form
those neural pathways until eventually

there will be billion dollar payouts.

And we can pay them less and
less and less and less and less.

And that is exactly how
it worked with dogs.

Anke: That's a classic because
like in Spain, people like

obsessed with luxury, right?

It's kind of like a primary,
uh, investment strategy, right?

And so, and it is true.

Like you just need occasionally somebody
here that somebody's won somewhere

and people spend massive amounts.

on the lottery, just in that hope
that maybe next time it, it, it,

Paul: yeah.

Oh, I just might win that.

Maybe it's my turn.

And that's how we act.

This is how dogs act.

Science is science.

Anke: And I love this, like, yeah, I
love the science piece to it because

it somehow takes, it feels like it
takes the argument out for people.

Paul: Well, you know,
I, I really liked that.

Uh, when you talk about negative
training, the first thing I ask Uh,

because, you know, you're trying
not to be judgmental or anything,

you just get to the science part.

Who did you learn your
positive training from?

And I have yet to meet.

A person who did what I used to
do, the leash corrections, the

pinning the dog to the ground,
the jabbing, all that other stuff.

I have yet to meet somebody who
has really taken a solid course

in reward based dog training.

So they can say, well, what is it you
did, and can I show you something?

You don't have to believe, I'm, as you
can tell, I'm very long winded, but you

don't have to keep talking to somebody.

They need to A, see it,
and B, be able to do it.

All that being said, some people
still won't change because they're

so successful using negatives, and
that's how they identify themselves.

So, uh, but all we can do is, you
know, one dog at a time, one person

at a time, and hope for the best.

Anke: Yeah.

And I think there is, there does seem to
be a momentum that's picking up, right?

I did a summit in February and I remember
we had like a little panel discussion

where I got everybody in the room.

And I remember somebody was, she said, I
can't believe like for 30 years I've been

trying to spread this message and always
felt it was just me yelling into the wind.

And now just to be in a room with a whole
bunch of other people looking in the

same direction, you know, so it feels
it's sort of picking up more as a, not

just some weirdo who just doesn't get it,
you know, so, but it actually You know,

people get to see, it's like, hey, there
is a better way of doing this, you know?

Paul: Boy, you're spot on.

I mean, I agree with that, but what the
direct result of that is, A, I mentioned

earlier is that hundreds of millions of
dogs have been saved because of this.

But the other big factor is,
is the motivation of why am I

working with my dog, is because
we feel better about ourselves.

In my children's program, Paws for Peace,
Uh, I'll give you a real quick, my, my

book is all full of these stories, but
in the Paws for Peace program, we would

have children in the back of the room,
and I brought in my 110 pound golden

retriever, and everybody's a little
nervous about dogs, uh, and they'd be

in the back of the room, and I said, you
know, Grady's a little bit nervous, too.

You're gonna like this story, and
Grady's a little bit nervous, too.

Can you help, help him feel a
little bit more comfortable?

So I give everybody a treat, and
especially the people in the back

of the room first, and I said,
when you say Grady, Find it.

And so they, okay, I'm in the back
and there's kids in front of me,

I'm feeling safe, and this is it.

And what we've just done is
we've triggered curiosity.

Curiosity is the number
one door opener for fears.

And so, okay, I'm safe.

Created an environment for safety.

I'm gonna take the treat and go find it.

The moment Grady takes the
treat, a bridge is formed.

So, Mother Nature, in the form of
this big dog with these big teeth and

everything, has just taken a gift from
this child, Mother Nature in the child.

And so, what have you done?

You've reinforced something
in the child's heart.

You've opened up the child's heart and
said, I'm more connected to Mother Nature.

But in reality, she's saying, well,
maybe this dog isn't so bad after all.

At the end of the class, All the
children are petting this big old dog.

There's like 10 hands on
the dog because he's so big.

And at the end, I always finish,
I say, you were able to get this

big dog to sit and lie down and
to pick up toys and to do tricks.

And you never had to yell and
you never had to correct him.

You didn't say no or get angry.

Imagine what you can do with your
brothers and sisters and friends.

So that makes it real.

Again, you can talk a lot, and
I talk a lot, but you have to

show them if possible, and then
they have to do it themselves.

I love that.

Anke: I love that, and that brings me
to your book, which I've got, and it

comes with a whole bunch of videos where
you can actually see this in action.

So, let people know where they
can get that course on it,

Paul: where they can find

Anke: out about you.

But I think definitely get your
course on the book because that's

the thing, it does come with a whole
bunch of extra resources and videos

where you can see this in action.

And it's so, it's like,
oh, it makes so much sense.

You can almost like put two
and two together, like how it

would make sense for the dog.

Paul: Yeah.

Yeah.

How many people do you talk to?

All of a sudden their
mouth opens and goes.

Awesome.

Of course, it's so simple.

It makes sense.

We just have to learn how to do it.

So thank you for that, uh, Anke.

Uh, so they can go to my
website, OriginalDogWhisperer,

OriginalDogWhisperer.

com.

And, uh, the neat thing about the
book is it's a read and watch.

So it's the first one, I think,
that's been out there, uh, so you

can get, hold the book in your
hands and go on the internet.

And then you can actually click a button
that shows what we've just talked about.

So that's number one.

Um, you can buy it on Amazon also, but
if you buy it off my website, 3 from the

sale of each book goes to the nonprofits,
uh, that I mentioned in the book.

So if you could spend a little extra
time doing that, uh, that would be

really appreciated, everybody benefits.

So thank you for allowing me to do that.

I appreciate it.

Anke: I can highly recommend
it because I've got it and

I got hooked on the videos.

And it's just like delightful
to see it in action, right?

It just brings it to life
in this most beautiful way.

Well, thank you.

And we obviously put the links below
the video above, or, you know, if you,

if you watch it and if you're on the
podcast, it's obviously in the show notes.

So we're going to make it easy to
find, so you don't have to go very far.

Well, thank you so much.

This is absolutely delightful.

And I was like, Oh, I'm just going to like
looking for excuses to bring you back.

Paul: Well, that went quick, didn't it?

You can always tell something is fun
when two seconds later it's over.

You know, I appreciate the opportunity.

All right.

Thank you.

Awesome.

Thank you.

Bye bye.

Thanks so much for listening.

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And if you know a pawsome human
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Email me at Anke.

That's A N k E at Soul
touched by dogs.com.