Soul Touched by Dogs

Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs
Podcast, the show for dog lovers who

see dogs not as toys or tools, but
wise souls worth our respect and care.

I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host.

I talk to poor some humans, people who
do great work for dogs and their people.

So come and join us for
today's conversation.

Anke: Hello and welcome.

I'm super excited this morning.

Um, actually early morning my
time for change, and I'm here with

the lovely Vicky and Joe from the
Canine Business Academy, and I can't

wait to get stuck into that topic.

So, ladies, Take it away.

Where in this lovely world are you based?

And, you know, what's your business?

I've kind of already given it away.

Jo: We are in, uh, in England, in
the UK, and I would love to say

it's sunny, but it really is not.

It's very grey.

It's trying to be.

No, not here, it's not.

And our business is supporting dog
professionals to have a business that

they absolutely love and that loves
them back for all the right reasons.

Anke: I love the sound of that.

Okay, well, there's so much
I want to know about that.

Um, so, but you're dog
trainers as well, aren't you?

Jo: Yes, we are.

Yeah, that's right.

We've been doing dog training for
collectively about 25 years, uh, between

us, so lots of miles on the clock.

Anke: So are you still, are you still
supporting clients or do still people

come to you like my dog does, whatever,
so like you're still working as that or

have you, fully shifted towards like,
okay, uh, we support dog professionals.

Vicky: In the thick of it still.

Joe and I had, we met because we had two
separate dog training businesses that

we have now collaborated them together.

We've merged them together.

It's one.

And we had very similar views of
the dog industry and we could see

there were some things that needed.

Attention, shall we say, and that was our
mission, really, is to work together to be

able to help these dog professionals who
are struggling in the ways that they are.

And yeah, so the dog
training business is now one.

We are doing that alongside
Canine Business Academy.

We are reducing our client base
because we all find it very

difficult to juggle everything.

But yes, no, we are still in the thick
of that dog training at the moment.

Anke: Hmm.

Yeah.

I mean, I was just thinking like,
yeah, anybody who's ever transitioned

or pivoted, like knows there is that
period where you just have to do both.

But the question, you know,
where I was curious about was

like, is the plan to keep to, or
is the plan to transition over?

Because it is hard to keep up.

I literally saw an email you sent out
this morning and you've got a book in the

making and, you know, and the mastermind,
and there are a lot of balls to juggle.

So which ones are your
favorite balls then?

Ooh, great question.

Great question.

I hope nobody takes that out of context.

That's

Vicky: Yeah.

I love it, I love it.

Well, actually, we were having
a conversation yesterday,

weren't we Jo, about this?

And how much we, we're putting everything
into CBA, as we call it, affectionately.

And we never thought we'd feel
this way about another business

or another angle of the industry.

Like our passion is so great for
this business that we are, yeah, I

think we're feeling that trajectory
to make this something really huge.

And we've got these massive goals
that we want to be able to hit.

So I think the dog training will,
it is reducing, and that is the aim

is to still do it, but in a very
limited, reduced capacity and let

the Canine Business Academy kind
of just keep growing and growing.

Anke: Yeah, no, I mean, that
does make sense because it

gives you that unique angle.

Like, you know, the industry,
like, you know, so what is it that

dog professionals struggle most?

Like, what's the state
they come to you for?

Like in, you know, like when I go, Oh,
what, what's the hardest part of it?

Jo: There is really, doesn't it?

We've got people that are either
just really early doors of their

business where they've, they've gone
and got a air quote qualification or

an accreditation with a course, and
then they're going right, okay, how

do I then turn this into a business?

So we've had a few of those.

Um, We've had some like training veterans
that have been doing it for several

years and are just feeling really
stuck with knowing what to do next.

Um, feeling like they're not making a
living wage, feeling frustrated with the

clients that they're perhaps working with.

Um, and then we've got others that
are bigger businesses, let's say where

they've got teams under them and they
are in slightly different marketplaces.

So we've got.

Borders and daycares we're working with.

We've got groomers.

Um, so it's kind of cast that net
quite nicely, actually, to cover the

dog profession, even though we are
specifically talking from our experience.

But because of the role that we have,
which is essentially business strategists,

it can apply to the whole industry
and it's the whole industry that we,

that we love and want to improve.

Anke: Yeah, no, I love that.

And I remember the conversation, like
your podcast, when we, when we met, I was

sitting there listening to Andy, like your
fabulous guest on the day, talking about

the challenges and I'm like, well, that's
exactly the same that I know in the, in

the coaching space, you know, the sort of
the coaching and trainers and therapists

like it's exactly the same stuff, right?

added layer here that
there's the dogs involved.

So it's not just the people.

So there's also like, well, okay,
like how, you know, who's harder to

deal with the dogs or the people?

Vicky: Always the people.

Anke: All the time.

Yeah, that's kind of like the main
difference that it's almost, it's

almost like when you, like I had
my first business was a sewing

business and sometimes I'd make, um,
You know, flamenco dance costumes.

I'm in Spain.

And, and so I would, you know, and then
I would go and, and make a dress, dresses

for like a little group of dancers.

And when they were kids,
it's that same situation.

Like the person actually getting the
dress is the child, but the person

you're dealing with is the parent, right?

And the teacher of the group.

So it's an interesting,
interesting dynamic.

So what would you, what would
you recommend to somebody who

says, Oh, you know, I love dogs
and I just did the certification.

I want to turn it into a business.

Like what's a tip you'd give them?

Vicky: Well, it's, it's
one of those things because

people get into this industry.

This reason, don't they?

It's, it's pull in, it's a passion piece.

And very often that takes over and,
and that's all they can think about is

that I want to work with these dogs.

I want to help people, all this stuff,
but they forget any kind of plan and

any kind of roadmap and strategy where
the business is going to start and

where it's going to maybe end up or
the journey they're going to go on to

get to their, their goals or missions.

And have they even thought about what
they want their business to look like,

have they even thought about who they
want to serve, you know, what kind

of people they are targeting and,
you know, what is the purpose of the

business, what are they trying to
achieve, what's their, their mission?

Because if we don't know that,
then it's really hard to base

the rest on anything really.

So like the, a lot of the work that we
do with people is a lot of pre work.

And getting people to think about the
purpose of the business, the why they're

doing what they do, where they are and
where they want to be and, and just plan

all of those things and just get all what
we call the foundational pillars really

solid to be able to build the rest on.

So it can be, I think back to when I first
started out and it's the last thing I'd

be thinking about is this business thing.

It's like, what, why do you
need to think about that?

It's all the exciting things of starting
a business and working with people.

But it pays off so much if you spend
that time and just do that groundwork

and it just prevents so many problems in
the, in the future if you do that right.

So I think Jo would probably agree that
that would be our first piece of advice

is to sit down and think about all of
those things that are really important

to you and your values, uh, vision,
mission, um, and yeah, just get those

really good and, and really solid.

Anke: Yeah, I love that.

I love that.

I mean, it's like, I, and I
think it makes it harder when

it's your first rodeo, right?

Because when I moved to Spain in
2004, it's like, Oh, I want to

make Flamenco costumes, right?

Uh, well, I was the same, you know,
all I thought about was next, like

what I can find some poor soul
will buy a skirt I made, right?

And you didn't really, and the
problem is, I think a lot of people

like that don't know, you don't
know what you don't know, right?

So you're not, because I'm sort of
seeing it now where it's like, when

you, Like, it's the second vote of
you, you know, all these things and you

kind of know about, you know, you were
saying it targeting and positioning and

like, what problem are you solving for
somebody when you first start out with

this, like, I want to help dogs, like,
that's the last thing you think about,

but you should be thinking about, right?

So how do you find this hard to,

I mean, it feels to me, it's
like people won't search for

something they don't know exists.

Vicky: Yeah, it's a
bit like a puppy owner.

In an ideal world, you want them all
to start as soon as they get the puppy

without any issues having started
or anything, but they don't do that.

So they try and do things on their
own for a little bit and then they

go, Oh my God, it's too overwhelming.

I can't do it by myself.

So this is what we typically tend to
find, isn't it, Jo, that we get people

who have tried to do their best.

And it really is trying to
do your best because you just

don't know anything different.

And then coming up with all these
obstacles and this frustration that

we talked about at the beginning,
the burnout, the tiredness, all

of that stuff just kicks in.

Um, and it would be absolutely amazing
if we could reach out to people who

haven't even started yet or are thinking
about getting started and getting

to the source of, of them really.

Um, so again, that's another one
of our missions is to try and,

yeah, prevent as many people going
through what we've been through.

Both been through as we possibly can.

Anke: Yeah, no, I think anybody
who's, who's turned a passion into

like, that's the thing for me,
that started 20 years ago and it's

always been about the passion.

But it comes with that pitfall, like
the very same thing that drives you,

motivates you to actually do something
with it is also the thing that stops

you from being strategic and methodical.

So yeah, totally makes sense.

So tell me about the book.

Jo: It's a labour of love, this is.

So the book is due to come out in November
this year, so November 2024, and it

is We haven't got a name for it yet.

Nameless book.

But the content is, is all about,
as, as Vicky alluded to, like

building these really strong
foundational pillars in your business.

So the, the hope and the purpose
of it is that somebody will be

able to pick it up and go, right.

If I do these steps.

Then I'm going to be in a much better
place to understand myself and my

role in the business, like what my
business actually looks like, the, the

type of people that I'm serving, the
offers that I am putting out there.

It's like my whole service
piece, whatever that looks like.

And thinking about it from the customer
Journey bit as well, like how are

they viewing your business and just
really getting you to think about all

of these different pillars that you've
potentially not ever considered, or

if it has been considered, it may have
just been a fleeting thought because

then the day to day gets in and we're
like, Oh, I need to bring in some

money, I just need new clients, I
just need this, I just need that, and

we get caught up in, in that world.

So.

This is to hopefully give people space
to, to take a little bit of time out, hit

pause, breathe, and start to implement
some of these strategies that we know

can really make a huge difference.

Anke: I love that.

I love that.

It's kind of like the dog
business Bible, right?

Yeah,

Vicky: I

Jo: think,

Vicky: yeah.

And actually, it's designed and it's
written in such a way where if the

steps are followed in the order that
we put them in, it takes you from

one to the other really fluidly.

And it, like Jo said, it's a step by step
guide as to, Wherever you are, whether

you're new, whether you're established,
to be able to get to that point where

you absolutely love your business again
and you enjoy everything about it.

Because really, when you have
a business, You should love

everything about the business.

There are bits you prefer
and bits you don't.

But ultimately, it should be, like,
the whole thing you absolutely love.

A bit like a person.

We had an interview with somebody the
other day and they used that analogy.

And ever since, it's
really, like, stuck with me.

And gone, yeah, do you know what?

Like, it is like a relationship.

You don't just pick and choose
the bits that you accept.

You kind of have to accept
the whole thing, don't you?

Anke: Yeah, actually there's, there's
somebody like, like actually a couple

of sort of coaches I know, they really
talk about like, they, they, they

go very much sort of tune into their
business sort of energetically and they

literally say, well, I treat it like,
like it's got its own, like, they kind

of like, not like a person, but you know,
like its own sort of energetic entity.

So then they literally have this
conversation with their business, right?

It's this thing, it's this whole thing
that you have a relationship with, right?

I think, and it's kind of like,
Well, I have, I don't think I've ever

talked to my business, but you know,
I talked to my dogs, but I haven't

really talked to my business, but it
does make sense to kind of think like,

okay, it is a relationship, right?

So, and it's, it's something that is
easy to overlook when all you think

about, I just want to help dogs.

Vicky: Yeah, absolutely.

And I think a business for a lot of
people is the inconvenience part of it.

They're like, we just want
to work with the dogs.

We just want to do the
thing we're really good at.

And we totally appreciate that.

And we understand it.

And we felt the same.

But if you get all of these things
right, you can love everything.

every part of it as much.

And, and it should be enjoyable because
at the end of the day we do it for the,

for the love of everything about it.

And we've made that choice.

And so we should own that choice.

Anke: Absolutely.

And I think also to, to just, uh,
embrace the learning journey, because

I feel a lot of, I see this, you
know, like I'm, I'm a tech girl.

So it's like, uh, I see it.

A lot of people come as like, Oh, the
tech does my head in and, and, Well,

most of it comes because it's out
of your area of competence, right?

And nobody enjoys something
you're no good at.

So like part of it is like, yeah,
there is some stuff you have to learn

because you can keep this as a hobby.

You can help somebody else
with their dog as a hobby.

If you want to turn it into a business,
there's going to be some things.

And as you gain competence,
you often enjoy something more.

Is that, is that something that you see?

Jo: Yeah, absolutely.

And I would say that it's.

It's, it's really interesting when
you start looking at other people's

businesses as well, because you realize
how, I don't know, I've certainly,

it's been like a bit of a learning
journey for us as individuals as well

in going, realize just how much we.

We do get stuck in on all of these
different parts of it and we'd not

necessarily realized it at the time when
we were in the thick of it in the dog

training business but now we've kind
of like applied everything into this

business we're like oh it's actually
gone quite seamlessly because we've got

some knowledge and we and we know what
we're doing more but I think it's it can

absolutely be a scary thing for people
in general to to try something that

they're not necessarily wanting to do.

Like, there's still elements that,
yeah, like Vicky said, like we're

not overly keen on doing the tech.

We can do, we can do the basic bits, but
knowing, oh gosh, sorry, I'm drinking

a massive mug of tea because my voice
has gone a bit croaky this morning.

So, anyone who's watching and
you can't see my face when

I'm drinking, I apologize.

Um, When you are doing that work for your
mission and that, and that purpose of your

business, you can start to forward project
where you want your business to go.

And you can implement
things for the short term.

So we know that we are going to have,
um, we're going to grow this business

so that it's got a team working in it.

And we can then start to.

Divvy up some of the roles and give it
to people who have got the specialism

in that so that it becomes a more
efficient part of the business.

But in these early stages, and again,
it totally depends on what type of

business you want to be running.

You may never want to have a team, or you
may just naturally start growing and then

go, Oh, I actually need somebody now.

Um, so I think it's being mindful that
your business will grow as a team.

you do and the more you learn and the
more you implement things will change

and it's okay for it to change as well.

In fact it's quite exciting
when it changes I think.

Anke: Yeah I think it's it's
inevitable and it's wonderful

because it'd be boring if it didn't.

I was just thinking like I don't know
like if I look back like 20 years

before oh no I wouldn't want to go
back there you know I definitely want

to you know it's so much it's um yeah
and it doesn't always have to be.

Perfect days every day.

Like, I think even as the, especially
when, when you have these moments, like

literally just thinking of this email
this morning, we're like, Oh, we've

got this launch coming up and that.

So it's like those little
pressure pot moments.

You know, I think that's where a lot
of insights come through as well.

When you see it's like, Oh, well
actually, you know, time pressure.

Tell me about time pressure.

Cause I said, I read
something in your email.

We said, Ooh, we love a bit of a deadline.

You know, I find it's like when
there's time pressure, it's almost

like priorities become really.

Clearer.

Easier than if you're just kind of like,
oh, you pick and choose one out randomly.

Vicky: Yeah, and it's like in that
email it, we talked about juggling

or spinning a lot of plates.

Like, we are doing that at the
moment, but it is strategic.

It's strategic juggling of balls
or strategic spilling of plates.

It's not sustainable for
a long period of time.

So what we're in at the
moment is a lot of stuff.

Like, we're getting family members
and friends being like, My God,

how much stuff have you got on?

But because we know there's an end point
to it, because we know it isn't forever,

and if it was, we would absolutely
be like, But we can kind of just get

through it day to day at the moment.

Um, and so all of these things
that we've got coming up are like,

some things are very imminent.

So some of those deadlines are
going to pass very quickly.

In fact, the book is going to be today.

Isn't it, Jo?

Off with the publisher today.

Yeah, the final draft is
going to go off today.

So that will be one massive tick off that.

And so Because we know what we need to
do, when we need to do it, and there is

that light at the end, at the end of the
tunnel, that means that it's, it's not

just this stupid busyness that we're in
for a long period of time, which, you

know, there are people who are in that
day to day for like extended periods of

time, and this is where that burnout can
happen, because they have no plan, they

have no strategy, they have no end point
for things, and then they just want to

give up because they can't do it anymore.

And it's so sad because this
industry is losing people every

day because of that burnout.

And because of that, I
don't know what else to do.

I'm trying to like stick pins in
things all the time and just firefight.

And they just have no clue
how to, how to deal with it.

And I guess that's where we come in
because this is what we love to help

people that are in that situation.

And to make them again, coming
back to that love element again,

we want them to love that business
because they started it with love.

So we want them to get that back again.

Anke: I love that.

I love that.

That's, that's just, yeah, it's
such a beautiful space, just

beautiful place to land the plane.

So, you know, if anybody, well, not
anybody, like a lot of people will

resonate with that because I, and
there's also, it's like, you know what

I love about this, how leveraged it
is for you to, you still help dogs.

You know, by, by helping the
people who help dogs stick out

and build their businesses.

So I think it's that
leveraged piece of it.

That it's even if you were to never
actually work with dog training clients

again, you'd still help the dogs, right?

So I just, just love that.

So where can people go
to find out about you?

Where can they get in touch, get on your
email list, find out what you've got?

Vicky: So there are a couple of
ways actually, if people want

to have a look at what we do.

Then have a look at our
website caninebusinessacademy.

com.

So there's some information on there
about obviously more about us and how

we do things, what we, um, how we work.

You can subscribe to our
mailing list on there.

And then we've also got a
Facebook community group,

which is really nice actually.

We're building a really nice group there.

Um, which if you search on Facebook
CBA community, That will come up.

And so, yeah, if anybody's interested
in, again, engaging more with us, we

do some live trainings in that group.

Um, you hear about things
first in that group as well.

So yeah, any dog professionals that are
just interested in wanting to have more

of a plan with their business, feeling a
bit stuck and want to connect with other,

um, dog professionals in there, because
that's something that we really, really

promote is that community and connection,
which is lacking in the industry.

Anke: And so important, right?

Because it's so often that people will.

I feel they're battling.

I really saw this when I did my
summit in February, and people were

in the room and they go, Oh my God,
I can't believe there's all these

other people on the same path.

You know, and there was literally
somebody says like, Oh, I've been, you

know, battling and especially they're
all, you know, like fear free, force

free and they get a lot of slack so they
get kind of attacked a lot so they feel

they, they, they're so passionate about.

Like, not using any, any, any harmful
kind of approaches, and they feel

they're kind of yelling in a vacuum,
they sort of feel it's like just me

against, like, the wind of everything.

So all of a sudden they're like, oh
my god, like, I'm not the only one and

that is such a big piece, you know, when
you know you're not, you're not alone

and what you're going through is, like,

Vicky: And it's a bit
like dog owners, isn't it?

You know, dog owners, when they connect
together and they're having the same

problems, it's like, Oh my God, I'm
not the only person going through.

Yeah.

It makes such a difference.

And of course the other
thing is our podcast.

So we've got our podcast, Let's
Talk Dog Business, um, which we

have lots of episodes with just Jo
and I chatting about, you know, all

sorts of things, but we have lots
of amazing guests on there as well.

So we've got some, yeah, very well
known dog trainers, um, and business

professionals and like all people from
all walks of life, actually, because

there were lots of different angles
that we come at from that podcast.

So yeah, if people want to learn more
about us, that's probably the best way

because we're just on there chatting
and, um, giving lots of, um, yeah,

tips and ideas and information away.

So, yeah.

Love that.

Love that.

Well,

Anke: thank you so much.

This has been delightful and,
um, yeah, let's just all help

dogs and their people, right?

So thanks so much for coming.

Thanks for having us.

Thanks so much for listening.

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Email me at Anke.

That's A N k E at Soul
touched by dogs.com.