Soul Touched by Dogs

Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs
Podcast, the show for dog lovers who

see dogs not as toys or tools, but
wise souls worth our respect and care.

I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host.

I talk to poor some humans, people who
do great work for dogs and their people.

So come and join us for
today's conversation.

Anke: Hello and welcome, Diane.

I'm very excited to have you here.

Diane: Thank you for having me.

I'm very excited to be here and,
uh, I know we have a lot to discuss.

Anke: I certainly believe we do.

So, before we dive in, let people know.

So where in this lovely world are you
and what's your business with dogs?

Diane: Well, I am located in Langley,
Washington, um, on beautiful Whidbey

Island, which I call Paradise.

Um, and I.

What I have to do with dogs is that
I actually am really focused on

stress as my research, but I deal
have dealt with behavior problems

for years and years and years.

Uh, all sorts of dogs,
all sorts of breeds.

Um, actually starting when I was
18 years old with di Diane's dog

obedience school, and it's all evolved.

To 1996 when Kieran Pryor came out
with, um, clicker and then, you know,

positive training took, um, off.

And I was all on board for that
because I hated what I was seeing

with dogs being hurt and their
wellbeing not being considered at all.

And my dad actually was an aversive
trainer and he had a, um, a kennel and he

trained Schutz Hound in canine military.

Um, so I watched that rollout and
was not always pleased with that.

And so that led me to my own business, um,
that I went into full-time working just

with behavior problems after my career.

And it's been, I've been in
this business for 25 years now.

Canine transformations, learning center.

What I see are a lot of stress dogs
because they have to acclimate to our

human life, and that's not always what
we think it might be because we don't

speak the dog's language most of the time.

And that's really how it rolled out
because I've been really working with

dogs since I was in fourth grade.

A reactive dog, and that got me interested
in reactivity and behavior problems.

Anke: Wow.

So many questions.

So, wow.

Uh, so I mean,

so you've seen.

This world evolve over
the last few decades.

Really?

Yeah.

So what's, what's the biggest
change you've observed in,

you know, I, I, I don't know.

I would imagine dogs are more stressed
today than they were maybe 30 years ago.

Is that true?

Or what changes have you seen

Diane: when you talk about
change and dec and decades?

I used to take my cocker spaniel
off lead, riding my bike into town.

Never thought anything about it.

Never, you know, had to worry
about what she would be doing.

Um, and she was reactive and she
would just follow me and listen

to me when I was kind to her.

Mm-hmm.

Um.

So the biggest change that I'm, I'm
seeing is that, you know, we're, we're

adding all this equipment and maybe dogs
are getting frustrated and over aroused,

and that's why we're seeing a lot of
what we call reactivity and aggression.

Um, because a dog is speaking to us
and telling them some, telling us that

something is missing in their lives.

And, um, we want to, you know.

Have them comply to
what we want them to do.

And that can be aversive
or it can be positive.

It's your choice which road you're going
to take because positive is better.

And I can tell you, I've seen so
many dogs that, that were trained

that just look like robots.

And, um, I don't like seeing that robotic
effect from a dog that just tell me what

to do, you know, and then I'll do it.

I like to see that joyful dog coming
out, and I think that's what we're seeing

and that is not sitting well with a lot
of people who don't know anything else

other than I have to do the obedience.

I have to make my dog mind.

Well, no, it's taking a turn and the
pendulum is swinging the other way.

Anke: Hmm.

So when, let's, let's just
clarify the terminology.

'cause I have a sense that
sometimes reactivity, different

people understand different things.

Yes.

How, how would you, what, like,
when you say reactive, what does

Diane: that look like?

It looks like, um, things that are
in the environment that the dog

might react to, like sounds or, um.

Cars, vehicles, uh, service people,
um, just so that they become maybe

over aroused, um, and frustrated
that they can't get to that dog.

There's of course, a dog or they see a cat
or a cow, and they just become reactive.

So we have to be careful
of the, of the terminology.

You're very right in saying on what we
use, because we have to understand that.

Why our dog is reactive, what in
the environment is causing that?

Um, too many distractions can lead to that
reactivity, whereas aggression is scarier.

Anke: Are they, are they
related or is coming?

Is one the logical
consequence of the other?

Not necessarily.

Right.

Diane: Can be.

I think reactivity that turns to
aggression is a higher level of

reactivity where you are dealing with
stress that has become acute or chronic.

And uh, the difference is
chronic acute stress spikes and

then takes days to come down.

But it does come down.

Chronic stress spikes
and never comes down.

And that's where you have your health
problems, your aggression, the dog is just

responding negatively to the environment.

So that's reactivity out of control.

Anke: Do, do you think there's more
of that now than there used to be?

Diane: Oh, that's a good question.

Um, I think we hear about it more now.

Mm-hmm.

Diane: And.

Was there, was it, was it there before?

Uh, probably, but we were
dealing with dogs differently.

Um.

Than, and than today.

And like I said, we're, we're
applying all this equipment.

We're not letting the dog adjust to
certain things and we're letting them

become frustrated and over aroused.

And I, I've seen that in my German
Shepherd puppy who had four owners

before me by four months old.

And so I was dealing with a
puppy that over aroused easily,

and when he became over aroused,
he redirected his aggression.

So that's when we're talking about he's
reacting, he's becoming over aroused

and he becomes highly frustrated and
then he redirects regression, right?

Mm-hmm.

Then it becomes.

He is biting me.

He ripped my coat, you know,
and all kinds of things.

He doesn't do that anymore.

I'm thinking, you know, this puppy is
gonna grow into an 85, 9500 pound dog.

I can't have this dog doing that at
that, at that weight and that age.

So, and he doesn't anymore.

Um, but, but I asked myself
why he was doing this.

And with four owners, you
know, there's reasons why.

Anke: I mean,

Diane: I

Anke: thought maybe because like a lot
of people live in apartments now where,

you know, like this is part of my story
with these ones here, those fur, you

know, I used to live in a historic
part of, of town in South Spain and

I didn't even realize until I had Mr.

Hypersensitive like very sensitive
and he was like kind of like literally

sort of on edge the entire time.

You know, and because, and I realized when
we were away, that's when I realized like,

oh my God, he's a totally different dog.

Like he's on information
overload the entire time.

Mm-hmm.

And I moved twice so that
he'd have a calmer life.

Right.

So it's, I mean, there's definitely
seems to be the environment, you know?

And people, I think when, I mean, I
look at my grandparents, like nobody

in an apartment in the middle of town
would've even thought of getting a dog.

Like a dog needs space.

Like now we are sort of different.

And I'm also very curious what
you, you know, from what you did

with your, with, with your, with
your, uh, German Shepherd puppy.

Like, somebody might, might go and
like, oh God, I have a dog like that.

So,

Diane: and they get, how

Anke: can I help them
chill out or relax more?

Yeah,

Diane: they do get put down, but
I've dealt with dogs like this.

That's my whole career, you know.

Um, I.

Uh, very dogs with a lot of behavior
problems and anxiety and stress.

Um, and so when you're dealing with
something like that, um, you have to

know what you're doing, you know, and
the, the normal companion dog owner.

Uh, doesn't, and they become afraid
because they take it personally that

the dog is attacking them, right?

When they're really not.

They're trying to talk to you and
say, something's not right here, and

I don't feel good in this situation.

Um, I feel closed in.

So the first thing I taught him
to do was to touch target, touch.

Instead of grab, bite pull.

So, so that was a process.

Um, but now he'll give me a bump,
you know, like a nose bump instead

of the teeth don't come out.

We're not ripping jackets,
we're not doing anything.

He's 17 months old and he is becoming a
wonderful, wonderful family member and.

It is a step-by-step process,
and so that's what I do.

My, one of my other specialties
is resource guarding and

multi dog households fighting.

Um, I tend to like those cases
and I, I love dealing with

dogs that can't deal with life.

Very much like a mental
health professional or, you

know, dealing with trauma.

Um, there are several trainers that do
that, and I happen to be one of them.

And I, I love that because I
understand what they're trying to say.

I think we don't listen enough to
our dogs, so, um, that's important.

Anke: Oh, I agree.

I agree.

So, I mean, is there.

Are there sort of certain things
that you see over and over that

people misinterpret or overlook?

Diane: Um, yes.

Um, there's so many things.

I mean, it depends on what you're looking
at and what behavior you're looking at.

So if you wanna pick a behavior,

Anke: well, let's just take an example.

Let's just take a real life example.

Good friend of mine, uh.

Well, she just was just recovering
from a hand injury because she

has, um, an English Bull terrier.

He is a bit over two years old, a
little bit deaf on one ear, so I

think that probably doesn't help.

So he gets, I've seen him on Zoom calls,
like it's a big chunky boy and he gets

overexcited and when he doesn't wanna.

Go home.

Home, he gets snippy.

And so now, apparently lately he started
to go after joggers or piece people on

a bicycle and actually nips and ankles.

Mm-hmm.

So that's how she actually ended up with,
because she saw somebody in the distance.

She said, oh my god, I thought he
might go off and bite them in the Anke.

So she grabbed the collar
and he did a little twist.

So that's how that happened.

Right.

So, but that kind of, so
he's obviously over like.

Gets aroused and then, you know,
he's got a big mouth, so he's bitten

her in the, you know, nipped her.

Like, not like bitten, bitten,
but like when he kind of doesn't

want to go home, he'll go.

And so he is nipped her.

She's had bruises in her belly and on
her hands and, and he's nipped other

people in the, in the, in the ankles.

Diane: Yeah, that's a real situation,
um, that you have to really dial it back

because he is becoming over aroused.

Um, and he sounds like a smart
boy because a lot of times with

frustration and over arousal, these
dogs are wicked smart and they know

what they want and what they want to
do, so she just has to dial it back.

She has to go backwards back to
kindergarten and start retraining this.

And not take these long
walks that she's taking.

And I hear it all the time.

Well, that's my sanity.

I have to take the walk.

Well, you take the walk, leave the dog.

Anke: I think she, she does these
long walks because she says he needs

it to, to kind of get his energy out.

I don't think so.

Diane: No, I don't think so either.

Take shorter walks and
avoid that arousal level.

Teach him.

That it's fun to go back home.

Mm-hmm.

Diane: Okay.

So that, let's say I, I like to call it,
some people call it spider, um, walks.

I call it A to A to B2C,
you know, A to Z walk.

So I go point A to B and I walk
that 10 times back and forth.

Then that's our walk.

We're done.

We don't go to the park and walk for
miles and miles and miles because

this dog is not ready to do that.

Um, we wanted to stay
below the arousal levels.

Um, maybe rent a sniff spot.

I don't know if they have them in the
United Kingdom, but we have sniff spots

here where people rent out places for
reactive dogs, aggressive dogs that

they can go and run their heart out.

Without worrying about any other
dogs or any other people around,

find places where this dog can get
its arousal out in frustration.

It doesn't have to be a leash walk.

Um, some enclosed area that might
be different, you know, um, ex

experience and environment for the dog.

Um, very important.

So she just needs to dial it
back, teach him what else to do.

Instead of arousing at what he's seeing.

And believe me, um, I've been
there, done that thousands of

times, and so it does work.

You have to be diligent about it,
and you have to understand that you

don't have to drag the dog wherever
you go because you're just teaching

him to accelerate that behavior.

Instead of learning what else
he can do with that behavior.

Anke: Mm.

Yeah, I mean, I've seen, I've seen
him like at Zoom meetings when he is

like, and next thing she goes like,
oh my God, he's eating the blanket.

So, so he's very much, you know,
I kinda also knows when, like

how to demand her attention.

Right.

So she's on the Zoom call and he's sort of
supposedly sitting there quietly and, and

then he, he gets stuck into the blanket.

Yeah,

Diane: he is got a, a demanding
personality, obviously.

Um, she probably should do a stress
release process with him and make

sure that he's getting enough rest.

Um, it sounds like he's getting over
aroused at a lot of different things.

And so, and she needs to calm down
and dial back a little bit, um, and

not res, not respond to those things
that he's really doing because we

want to, we want to respond to that.

I walk away and

then when he stops Stew, what he is
doing, I say, good boy, and then I

can reward what else I want him to do,
and then we can practice that because

I want him to be in a frame of mind.

That makes the retention of what
I'm teaching stick otherwise it.

So, um, yeah, and that's a whole,
that's a whole pro, a whole process.

So a systematic process that she
should be going through, she.

She has to know where to start and
what to do next, and what to do

next, and what to do next, you know?

Anke: Mm-hmm.

And I can see how the, how the walk
is actually the hardest piece because

you know, when, you know in the house,
you know, like you can go and, and

like my big girl here, little Mrs.

Polar bear, Spanish Ma when she
was sort of adolescent, she got her

moments when she would, you know,
and so when I do like, I don't know,

I just kind of walk away and yeah.

And then she'd go like, alright then.

And it was quite easy.

But, but if you are outside, right?

If she's kind of, if she was, and
she's always been good outside, but

like I'm imagining if she was to go.

For like to kind of go up and jump
up on other people, it's like,

yeah, I can't just walk away.

Right.

I have, you know, like
I have to do something.

So it's almost like I have to make sure
I don't put her in that situation exactly

where I have to then like literally
like, you know, drag her, drag her

away, or have to give her the attention.

I don't really wanna give her there.

There's a

Diane: lot more that has
to happen before that.

And I was referring to in the house.

Mm-hmm.

Diane: Only.

Don't walk away from big problems.

Um, you are just running damage control
when an arou arousal like that occurs.

So you have to know where to be
in the process to avoid arousal.

You see what I mean?

Yeah.

You have to stay on the other side
of arousal so that you get the normal

stress spikes that come right back down.

It's okay to be stressed.

It's normal.

But they need, the spikes need
to come back down and the dog

has to feel more comfortable.

Um, so some dogs are just over aroused,
just thinking about going for a walk.

So you would just walk from your door
to the end of your property and back and

forth 20 times, and that is your walk.

And if he can handle it, then
you can add another point.

Then you can walk back and forth and
then you add another point and so

on until you're up to two mile walk
with no arousal and no frustration.

Um, this dog that you're talking about
really does need a stress release program.

And so in my book there is a systematic
pathway and it teaches the dog to.

Be on the prop, we'd get him on the
proper nutrition and you're checking for

health issues to make sure that that's
not a, you know, what's causing this?

Is he in pain?

A lot of dogs who are over
arousing, they're in pain.

Mm-hmm.

Diane: Um, and so why is he
grabbing the leash to keep going

on the walk or just to keep moving?

Or is he feeling some pain?

But beyond that, then you
want to address sensory.

Using a dog's senses at home and toy plate
because there's a lot of different things

you can do to exercise that dog without
actually taking this walk until he's

ready, until you can manage his arousal
points or not even see them at all because

they will diminish and then go away.

Um.

He has to learn to relax.

That's very important.

A lot of people don't understand
that their dogs need to relax.

They need to sleep deeply and deep.

REM during the day, uh, depending on the
dog's age, 1 1 2 times for adult dogs and

up to four times for puppies and seniors.

Um, so.

So it varies and they need their rest.

Um, and then the physical stimulation can
be something like, um, Sarah Fisher's ace,

you know, um, or Mari's movement puzzles.

And there's so many things out there
that you can do with your dog that

doesn't require, uh, over arousal, but
it actually brings the arousal down.

They still are getting satisfied
for the physical movement,

using their senses, all of it.

And one thing that we fail at is
teaching our dogs problem solving.

That's very rare that I'll,
I'll, I'll say, what do you do to

teach your dog to problem solve?

Nobody is, you know, eyes roll back in
the head and nobody knows what's going on.

What is she's talking about?

So where would somebody start?

Yeah, lemme think, what do I do?

So that is something like the games in,
in, in, that I discussed in my book, like,

um, the colored eggs and picking Yellow.

That's where the food will be.

Or clicking when the dog touches their
nose to yellow and then giving the treat

that becomes more complicated, right?

So they have to solve the problem.

So if you have six eggs of different
colors, they should always be going to the

yellow, or they should pick the smaller
size, or they should find a, uh, that a

connection exercise where a treat is on.

A cloth and they have to connect and
underneath like a laundry basket,

let's say, and they have to connect
that the treat is on the cloth and

they have to pull the cloth out.

That can be difficult for some dogs
and very difficult if the dog hasn't

been used to problem solving at all.

Um, in my classes for coming when called,
we put up a maze and the person goes

out of sight and calls their dog, and
the dog has to figure out how to get

to the person that's problem solving.

These

Diane: dogs are being mentally tired.

It's not just the physical fitness and the
physically tiring, there's mental tiring

as well, and it's very good exercise.

Even for performance dogs, the performance
dogs are getting that mental stimulation,

uh, so that they mentally tire.

But they're also getting the physical
stimulation that comes along with that.

And they have a job, they have a purpose,
and that's really important, I think.

Anke: Mm, yeah.

I love that.

I love that.

And it's actually really
interesting because I never

realized how how much sniffing and
things like that tires them out.

Diane: So, oh my God.

Now my temper does nose work.

And, um, if we're not going on a walk
that day, I'll do like several exercises

of nose work and he is tired for the day.

Or if, you know, um, that's so important.

Using all of the senses.

That's what our dogs really need
to do because that's how they live,

that's how they work with life.

That's who they are.

And we try to make them who we are.

Anke: Yeah.

Yeah.

I like, it's, it's really interesting
'cause I've got these, these two

big girls now, and I started to
attach like another long, like I've

got this really long leash now.

So they have a lot of, and I'm just like
the, the leash juggler kind of thing

to make sure it doesn't tangle Right.

But it's really funny because they
both now have a lot of roaming space.

Yeah.

It's hilarious.

Like we don't actually go
further than we used to before.

Mm-hmm.

So it's kind of, you know, we have
a bunch of different walks and, but

like with that really long leash,
they both get more time to sniff where

they wanna sniff until they are done.

Yes.

'cause

Anke: if you have a shorter leash,
somebody's always ready to move

on and they have to just move on.

Right.

So now with that really long
leash, it's like they can just.

Stay back at SNF and they will
always pick up by themselves

before the end of the leash.

So they really both get more
time to, and it's hilarious.

I really notice the difference.

I come home and they're wiped out.

Yeah.

Like so much more than they used to.

It's really, really powerful.

Diane: Yeah, it, it is.

And I do the same thing.

I'm, and I get very good
at juggling the long leash.

A lot of people aren't good at that,
and so they think the flexi leash is

the, you know, the solution to that.

But I like to see my dogs run out.

The only thing you might get tangled up,
you know, around a tree or something,

but then you just maneuver that.

And um, and like you said,
the dog always knows.

Keeps walking with you because they
know, um, that they have freedom.

Anke: Yeah.

Diane: I, I love, it's so
much enjoyable for all of us.

Like,

Anke: yeah.

Diane: If they can't be off leashing
somewhere, then at least we can do a

long line and then we can influence their
behavior through the long line as well.

If.

If your dog is reactive and another
dog or person shows up or something

shows up in the environment, but they
should be able to do that unhindered.

Um, if they don't like other dogs,
they still need to use their senses.

They don't have to be with
other dogs constantly, right?

Yeah.

Um, but they sh they should be
having that mental stimulation

that they need and require.

For wellbeing.

Just for, for being a dog.

Anke: Yeah.

Yeah.

So I would love you to, to just kind
of like, can you just put your book up

again, you know, so people get, will
obviously put the link to the book in

the, in the show notes and below here.

So

Diane: behind me.

Yeah.

But um, yeah, this is the book and it
goes through all of the stages actually

the, um, diagram that I just showed you.

Um.

Is really what the book's all about.

It's the first systematic process
to release stress in dogs.

Hmm.

And it took me a long time to
develop it where it, it works

over a three day period, and then
the rest of the book tells why.

Okay.

Tell tells why it works and how it worked.

Wow.

Yeah, that's quick examples, you know.

But if you follow that particular
circular pathway, um, in the order

that it's written, and it works like
a charm because a dog is getting that

sleep, they're getting sensory, they're
playing with their toys, they're

getting the physical stimulation and
exercise and problem solving that

they need, um, as well as nutrition.

Health benefits, um, and um, it
teaches the person to check waste,

for example, or even pH urine.

Um, simple things that we can do
to make sure that our dogs are in

good physical health and that is
an interfering with their behavior.

Anke: Yeah, that makes,
that makes so much sense.

So we'll definitely pop the link.

I'm sort of, now you know
where my mind's going.

I'm just like.

I, I, I bet it's probably not that
different from what we do to, to

Diane: release stress.

Right?

It, it is very similar.

Similar, we can do, uh, more things
than dogs can, and the difference is

that we can implement it for ourselves.

The dogs don't know how to implement it.

They're just responding in the
moment or what they were taught

and what they, what they know.

Anke: Yeah.

That makes sense.

Diane: Yeah, but, but the, but it
can be very similar for people.

We do yoga, we relax, take a nap.

We, you know.

We run, we jog, we, yeah.

We need things too, and we need
to read books and work and yeah.

All of that to release stress.

Yeah.

Anke: Yeah.

It's funny because when you think
about like, yeah, we both get stressed

and there's so many things we, we are
so similar in so many ways, right?

Diane: Mm-hmm.

Yes.

We are very much, I mean, we breathe, we.

Feel things, you, uh, feel touch and

mm-hmm.

You

Diane: know, all of the
senses are activated.

Um, there are certain things that are
different, like the digestive, um, the

intestines are, are shorter than ours
and, you know, so on and so forth.

They don't have a good.

Frontal lobe as we do.

So that's why they're not planning for
retirement and sitting the table and

paying mortgage and things like that.

But they have their own
little world, don't they?

Yeah.

And we have to understand that because
we don't always listen to our dogs.

Hmm.

Body

Diane: language is so important and
they talk with their eyes and their

nose and their barks and they can.

Think your thoughts before you think
that, or while you're thinking them.

At least my Shepherd and my Belgian and my
Aussie, can they kind of know me too well.

Anke: Yeah, no, totally.

Same here.

Same here.

It's like I've made experiments
out of this, you know?

Especially this one, like
he passed last April.

Like he was extreme, you know, Mr.

Sensitive was so extreme, he would.

First of all, like he would always
know when I come home, like, well

before it would be reasonable to
think that he could hear it, you know?

Yeah.

So like that.

And sometimes, like I'd be sitting
there and thinking, okay, I'm gonna,

you know, do this, and then I'm
going out for a walk and he'd be

like, what, what, what we going for?

And it was like.

I know for sure I've not moved, right?

Because if I grab my, the bag or if I put
the shoes on or what, you know, some sign,

then you'd be like, yeah, that's obvious.

But literally I would make a
point of not moving and it's like.

He knew like the moment I thought the
thought or sometimes just before he knew,

and the other two kind of know it as well.

But like he was quite extreme.

Diane: He still knew.

He is very, he is, they're very intuitive,
um, in that way and that's why it scares

me that people use, uh, pain to train.

Because you don't know what
you're dealing with internally.

Uh, a dog is not coping properly and
you're just adding more pain to pain.

That makes no sense, you know?

Um, so really being, listening to the
dog, what they need, having a system in

place so that you know what you're doing.

Um, when I'm training clients,
I always have a system in

place that they must follow.

Um, and, and then they will, they get
to where they're going quite quickly.

If they start with stress release, I
don't have as many lessons to do with them

because the dog is in a learning state.

I used to do 15 sessions before the
development of the stress release

program, but now if I do a stress
release program, you're talking three

to six, maybe it cuts it in half.

Um, for behavioral problems and,
and then it's just maintenance

and management, right?

And being intuitive to the three Ds, which
are distance, duration, and distractions.

Um, which we always, we
always should be anyway.

Even with my, my normal dogs, I am always.

Paying attention to those things
because there might be things

that they're not comfortable with.

Also.

I can't assume that they're perfect
'cause there's no perfect dog.

Just like there's no
perfect person except you.

Anke: You not me on a lead,

Diane: you know?

Anke: But it's, I mean, I think
it's that listening, I mean.

The starting point is even like
slowing down and paying attention

to the dog in front of you, right?

I think it's so often it's like, oh,
the dog needs to do this and sits and

plugs and, and, um, you know, and,
and that's, that's all there is to it.

And nobody asks, like, if the
dog's barking, if the dog's

anxious, like, what's going on?

You know,

Diane: people are so obsessed
with making the dog do what they

want them to do, that they, they
sacrifice learning who that dog is.

We do it with people too, you
know, um, you're trying to think

of your next sentence before
the person has even stopped.

Stopped talking.

Yeah.

Diane: And, and you're not paying
attention to the person and really

what they're trying to relate to you.

Um, and that's so very important when
you're dealing with people as well.

For sure.

Anke: I always say our dogs are our wisest
teacher, so like, you know, anything we

learn there, we can take anywhere else
in life and it'll be, it'll be valuable.

Right.

Diane: For sure.

Anke: Yeah.

Diane: Lots of science.

So where

Anke: can, yeah, for sure.

Yeah.

So where can people go find out,
get, I mean get the book, find

out more about you, work with you,
where's the best place to find you?

Diane: Um, the book is available
and most places where books.

Can be found like Amazon and, and I
like to send people to book baby.com

and to the bookstore.

And then all they have to do is
look up the title or put my name

in and, um, buy from there, there.

Uh, and often I'm having coupons for
reduction in pricing, uh, at times.

So.

For them to watch for that type of thing.

Um, and then you can contact me and, and
I'm very open to answering questions,

um, all the time at info@k9tlc.com.

And or, uh, my regular email is
my last name, garrett@Whidbey.com.

W-H-I-D-B-E y.com.

Um, either way.

And then I have, uh, a Facebook
business page, which is facebook.com/c

TL C3,

and.

A lot of followers.

A lot, lot, lot going on in there.

And then I, if you would like to join
the Canine Trans, um, canine, uh, stress

release, uh, de the detox, uh, program.

I have a group for that as well.

It's just called the Canine Emotional
Detox, so you can join that on Facebook.

I have force free trainers,
um, dealing with aggression.

Uh, that's on Facebook as well.

And, um,

my website, oh, I just, and my website.

So there's a contact form in my
website and that is kine tlc.com.

Anke: Awesome.

Awesome.

Well thank you so much.

Easy to find you and I highly recommend
get the book and get check her out.

Thank you so much for coming.

I think you are right.

We could talk dogs all day long
and we'll, we'll find another

opportunity to talk more.

Diane: Okay.

And I just wanna mention one thing
if I can before we Absolutely.

I'm doing a second edition of the book,
which will be, uh, more in depth and

cover all of those pieces more thoroughly.

And also my resource guarding, um,
60 days from guarding to sharing

will is done and will be out
hopefully by the end of the year.

So, um, lots of things to look forward

Anke: to.

Awesome, awesome.

We're gonna have to
have you back for that.

So, for, so.

Awesome.

Thank you so much.

Okay.

Thank you.

I.

Thanks so much for listening.

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That's A N k E at Soul
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